Wednesday, July 02, 2008
Culture Clash, Part II
The Lakeland Outpouring is hot. Not only is that obvious by the tens of thousands who’ve trekked to Florida from near and far, it’s just as evident by the heated responses you can get online these days by simply including words like Lakeland, Todd Bentley, outpouring, healing and revival in a blog. As meetings hit the three-month mark today, people are still asking the same question: “Is it really revival?†(For an answer to that, check out the upcoming issue of Ministry Today in September, which includes an array of opinions from seasoned revivalists and respected leaders.)
Yet equally as pronounced—and fascinating, in my opinion—are the virtual tongue-lashings you’re bound to get nowadays no matter how balanced (or unbalanced) you try to be with your comments regarding the Lakeland scene. No, I’m not just reacting to those who posted their thoughts regarding my previous writing—which were mild compared to most online threads I’ve followed. What intrigues me more is the all-or-nothing approach so many online opinionators have adopted.
It’s called throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I know because I’ve been prone to some major baby-tossing myself. In fact, not to one-up the Apostle Paul, but it wasn’t too long ago that I could’ve been nominated as Chief Tosser among tossers.
When I threw myself into the charismania waters of the Toronto Blessing, Pensacola Revival, prophetic movement and other moves that have come in the past 15-plus years, I often struggled with making sense of some of the “extra-biblical†matters I regularly encountered. Having come from a Southern Baptist, “if it’s not in the Bible, it’s not of God†background, it was already a bit of a stretch for me to explain what exactly went on when someone was “slain in the Spirit.†At times I wanted to jump out of the flow because I was so frustrated by the (often unspoken) emphasis on the extremes, the manifestations and teachings that required reading between the lines of Scripture. And I grew tired of playing Duck Duck Goose with identifying what was “truly†in the Spirit and what wasn’t. Like many who have made a similar leap of faith, I still wrestle with these issues.
The problem, however, is that as soon as you admit to such a struggle in certain circles, your “Spirit-filled†level supposedly plummets while your “religious spirit†quotient rapidly rises. To appear “with it†and in the Spirit, you either suck it up and withhold all questioning or, like many I’ve seen during these years, you get thrown out of the rapids and left to sit alone on the slippery slope of the riverbank. With no answers or resolution in sight, your questioning quickly morphs into acerbic criticism, which turns into pure bitterness—which eventually leads to dismissing the whole Spirit-filled experience. Most of us know at least half a dozen people who’ve been down this path and ended up tossing the baby out with the bathwater.
This is what I’m questioning when I mention the Lakeland Outpouring. It’s the culture we’ve created. A culture that is enveloped in the Lakeland experience and has been on full display at each of the previously mentioned moves of God. It’s a culture in which miraculous healings are fused with a flesh-fest of celebrity, where people can experience unprecedented heights in authentic, Christ-exalting worship and yet hours later leave a meeting utterly confused. And although this environment may propel many deeper into Holy Spirit matters, it also leaves countless wounded and abandoned in its wake.
I am convinced God is trying to redeem such a culture through this current move. As I hoped to convey in my previous blog posting (but obviously didn’t), we are an odd but beautiful mixture of flesh and spirit: 100 percent spirit and 100 percent flesh, as was our Savior, Jesus. Christ never once abandoned the spirit realm, but neither did He forsake His status as a Spirit-filled container of flesh. He did His Father’s will through both, but in doing so, He had to overcome the culture surrounding Him.
I believe the same can be done at Lakeland. Obviously, it doesn’t help when people jump to the conclusion that this outpouring is entirely “not of God†or, even more presumptuously, that it’s the work of the devil. That’s just as bad a case of baby-tossing as those who’ve given up entirely on the charismatic journey. Can the enemy creep into our misguided, scripturally unsound interpretation of what the Holy Spirit wants to do in Lakeland? You bet. Can leaders get caught up in the charismatic celebrity culture that rears its ugly head (as it’s always done) during such a series of meetings? Yep. But having seen firsthand the hunger among God’s people—including Todd Bentley and those leaders associated with Lakeland—for an authentic, Holy Spirit-saturated move, I think it would be somewhat foolish to say God isn’t at work. As always, He’s simply waiting on us.
Our challenge, then, is to not point the finger exclusively at Bentley or other leaders, though they embody much of this confusing culture. Neither is it to foolishly dismiss the entire outpouring as a farce. Instead, let’s seek to establish God’s kingdom culture in the midst of the mangled one we’ve created. And that, I believe, includes repenting for being able to coast down the winding river of recent movements while seeing a legion of lost, discarded and confused believers sitting on the banks, contemplating their complete exit from faith—because of us, no less.
Yet equally as pronounced—and fascinating, in my opinion—are the virtual tongue-lashings you’re bound to get nowadays no matter how balanced (or unbalanced) you try to be with your comments regarding the Lakeland scene. No, I’m not just reacting to those who posted their thoughts regarding my previous writing—which were mild compared to most online threads I’ve followed. What intrigues me more is the all-or-nothing approach so many online opinionators have adopted.
It’s called throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I know because I’ve been prone to some major baby-tossing myself. In fact, not to one-up the Apostle Paul, but it wasn’t too long ago that I could’ve been nominated as Chief Tosser among tossers.
When I threw myself into the charismania waters of the Toronto Blessing, Pensacola Revival, prophetic movement and other moves that have come in the past 15-plus years, I often struggled with making sense of some of the “extra-biblical†matters I regularly encountered. Having come from a Southern Baptist, “if it’s not in the Bible, it’s not of God†background, it was already a bit of a stretch for me to explain what exactly went on when someone was “slain in the Spirit.†At times I wanted to jump out of the flow because I was so frustrated by the (often unspoken) emphasis on the extremes, the manifestations and teachings that required reading between the lines of Scripture. And I grew tired of playing Duck Duck Goose with identifying what was “truly†in the Spirit and what wasn’t. Like many who have made a similar leap of faith, I still wrestle with these issues.
The problem, however, is that as soon as you admit to such a struggle in certain circles, your “Spirit-filled†level supposedly plummets while your “religious spirit†quotient rapidly rises. To appear “with it†and in the Spirit, you either suck it up and withhold all questioning or, like many I’ve seen during these years, you get thrown out of the rapids and left to sit alone on the slippery slope of the riverbank. With no answers or resolution in sight, your questioning quickly morphs into acerbic criticism, which turns into pure bitterness—which eventually leads to dismissing the whole Spirit-filled experience. Most of us know at least half a dozen people who’ve been down this path and ended up tossing the baby out with the bathwater.
This is what I’m questioning when I mention the Lakeland Outpouring. It’s the culture we’ve created. A culture that is enveloped in the Lakeland experience and has been on full display at each of the previously mentioned moves of God. It’s a culture in which miraculous healings are fused with a flesh-fest of celebrity, where people can experience unprecedented heights in authentic, Christ-exalting worship and yet hours later leave a meeting utterly confused. And although this environment may propel many deeper into Holy Spirit matters, it also leaves countless wounded and abandoned in its wake.
I am convinced God is trying to redeem such a culture through this current move. As I hoped to convey in my previous blog posting (but obviously didn’t), we are an odd but beautiful mixture of flesh and spirit: 100 percent spirit and 100 percent flesh, as was our Savior, Jesus. Christ never once abandoned the spirit realm, but neither did He forsake His status as a Spirit-filled container of flesh. He did His Father’s will through both, but in doing so, He had to overcome the culture surrounding Him.
I believe the same can be done at Lakeland. Obviously, it doesn’t help when people jump to the conclusion that this outpouring is entirely “not of God†or, even more presumptuously, that it’s the work of the devil. That’s just as bad a case of baby-tossing as those who’ve given up entirely on the charismatic journey. Can the enemy creep into our misguided, scripturally unsound interpretation of what the Holy Spirit wants to do in Lakeland? You bet. Can leaders get caught up in the charismatic celebrity culture that rears its ugly head (as it’s always done) during such a series of meetings? Yep. But having seen firsthand the hunger among God’s people—including Todd Bentley and those leaders associated with Lakeland—for an authentic, Holy Spirit-saturated move, I think it would be somewhat foolish to say God isn’t at work. As always, He’s simply waiting on us.
Our challenge, then, is to not point the finger exclusively at Bentley or other leaders, though they embody much of this confusing culture. Neither is it to foolishly dismiss the entire outpouring as a farce. Instead, let’s seek to establish God’s kingdom culture in the midst of the mangled one we’ve created. And that, I believe, includes repenting for being able to coast down the winding river of recent movements while seeing a legion of lost, discarded and confused believers sitting on the banks, contemplating their complete exit from faith—because of us, no less.
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I do not understand how kicking someone or punching a woman in the face while she is worshipping can be the leading of the Lord. At least not the Jesus I know. And any coverage I have seen of his meetings have no teaching, preaching or even reading of the Word of God.
# posted by 
: 9:19 PM
: 9:19 PM Thank you for this post. I see an attitude of grace,which is uplifting. We all need to be full of more grace for the body and what God is doing. Thanks,
# posted by : 10:00 PM
: 10:00 PM I've spent a lot of time recently looking into the events of Lakeland, and I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that it's a false revival and that Todd Bentley is a deceiver. I've been very saddened by this, but there are so many things that are wrong that it's not a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, it's a case of running away from major error. It's a manufactured revival based primarily on crowd manipulation.
# posted by : 8:13 AM
: 8:13 AM I get to feel so much "stress" when I hear those some phrases over and over again - eg. getting to the next level, obtaining the next breakthrough, receiving "fresh" annointing, even so called "double" annointing, going deeper into the glory, "higher revelation", more of God, desperate for a new touch, next wave, new move, etc. etc. etc. etc.
There always seems to be something I havn't yet received, experienced, achieved or felt? It creates a sense of always something lacking and missing? Is this just charismatic hype or am I just not into what "God is now doing on the earth?"
Where is the rest and peace that Jesus promised to those that come to Him? PLEASE SOMEONE ANSWER!
There always seems to be something I havn't yet received, experienced, achieved or felt? It creates a sense of always something lacking and missing? Is this just charismatic hype or am I just not into what "God is now doing on the earth?"
Where is the rest and peace that Jesus promised to those that come to Him? PLEASE SOMEONE ANSWER!
# posted by : 11:05 AM
: 11:05 AM Concerning the last post, a relationship with G_d thorugh our Lord Jesus should mirror a natural male and female union; as you discover more positve attributes, qualities, and information about whom you are espoused to, your relationship and viewpoint with that person should expand. This expansion should cause a person to "breakthrough" into better relational mindsets, receiving a fresh "anointing" or empowerment for the relationship based in love that can double ones feelings, allowing them to go deeper into this love which will produce a higher revelation or insight of their spouse. This higher insight or revelaiton can cause one to become anxious for the next move of love, insight, compassion, touch and caring that comes from being in a fulfilling relationship.
Being married for twenty one years and also pastoring and counseling for 12 years, I have discovered that if one is not experiencing at least some facets of the above in their married relationship, then the relationship is not growing but either coasting or diminishing. Therefore though we should not be wrapped up and focused only on the emotions of our Christian experience and growth, it is important that we understand and embrace that our walk needs to be progressively taking us into a deeper love affair with our Lord Jesus to the point where we continually hunger and thirst for His righteousness for when we do, His promise is we will be filled, meaning we will be content from His feeding, and the food will be so satisfying, that we cannot wait to get hungry again so we can receive more of His "soul food".
Being married for twenty one years and also pastoring and counseling for 12 years, I have discovered that if one is not experiencing at least some facets of the above in their married relationship, then the relationship is not growing but either coasting or diminishing. Therefore though we should not be wrapped up and focused only on the emotions of our Christian experience and growth, it is important that we understand and embrace that our walk needs to be progressively taking us into a deeper love affair with our Lord Jesus to the point where we continually hunger and thirst for His righteousness for when we do, His promise is we will be filled, meaning we will be content from His feeding, and the food will be so satisfying, that we cannot wait to get hungry again so we can receive more of His "soul food".
# posted by : 11:38 PM
: 11:38 PM Oh, the conundrum we create. My observations of the Lakeland Revival are: Worship is anointed. Actually, it is very anointed. It's my favorite part of watching. If anyone is overly critical of the worship or Roy Fields, in my opinion a strong religious or even demonic influence is at work.
Concerning Todd Bentley: Pros -- I give Todd credit for praying for terminally sick people and not shying away. In addition, Todd is definitely used to strike the Religious Spirit - and this isn't a bad thing. Also, I think there is some ministerial jealousy at worked couched in criticism.
Cons -- Todd borders on and may even cross over to very dangerous doctrine concerning 3rd Heaven experiences, Angels and various spiritual manifestations and healings. In my opinion, Todd also hypes himself, the revival and healings (how many are really legit?) way too much. It's like a Todd infomercial. His associates do the same thing.
I do believe the Lord is involved here, and I also believe anyone ranting and raving that it's all 100% false is mislead in their own deceptions with possibly several wrong attitudes at work (with the religious spirit being primary).
Reality is old wineskins are being challenged with the Lakeland Outpouring.
I've prayed this way for Todd; That the the Lord would chill the hype and raise up mature, serious and no nonsense elders to counsel and correct Todd when needed (and no I don't mean the typical Charismatic big name hotshot - no, I mean elders who really KNOW God).
Additionally, here's what the Spirit clearly spoke to me concerning revival. The Word to me was that the Lord wanted revival to be in my innermost man (in my heart) and not outward manifestations of flesh.
The inward work of God is what true revival is about and not hype and constant fleshly gyrations.
Concerning Todd Bentley: Pros -- I give Todd credit for praying for terminally sick people and not shying away. In addition, Todd is definitely used to strike the Religious Spirit - and this isn't a bad thing. Also, I think there is some ministerial jealousy at worked couched in criticism.
Cons -- Todd borders on and may even cross over to very dangerous doctrine concerning 3rd Heaven experiences, Angels and various spiritual manifestations and healings. In my opinion, Todd also hypes himself, the revival and healings (how many are really legit?) way too much. It's like a Todd infomercial. His associates do the same thing.
I do believe the Lord is involved here, and I also believe anyone ranting and raving that it's all 100% false is mislead in their own deceptions with possibly several wrong attitudes at work (with the religious spirit being primary).
Reality is old wineskins are being challenged with the Lakeland Outpouring.
I've prayed this way for Todd; That the the Lord would chill the hype and raise up mature, serious and no nonsense elders to counsel and correct Todd when needed (and no I don't mean the typical Charismatic big name hotshot - no, I mean elders who really KNOW God).
Additionally, here's what the Spirit clearly spoke to me concerning revival. The Word to me was that the Lord wanted revival to be in my innermost man (in my heart) and not outward manifestations of flesh.
The inward work of God is what true revival is about and not hype and constant fleshly gyrations.
# posted by : 5:13 PM
: 5:13 PM To follow up with my previous post:
Much of the criticism (and I'm not saying criticism is unwarranted) is tribal.
Yes, tribal...like gang affiliations.
Let me explain.
tribe/gang #1: Cessationists
Many internet posts/blogs/articles that constantly attack the Lakeland Outpouring can be categorized into theological camps (again, like tribal/gang mentality).
Many of the worst critics are from the cessationist camp. Cessationists believe all the Gifts of the Spirit ceased with the last Apostle roughly 2000 years ago. Though many cessationists are solid in many aspects of the Word, they absolutely blow it here (in their theology) as several hundred million legitimate born-again Pentecostal/ Charismatics worldwide can attest.
So why would anyone involved in the Lakeland Outpouring listen to a cessationist? Many cessationists believe all Pentecostal/ Charismatics are either NOT saved or deceived to the max for speaking in tongues, et al.
tribe/gang #2: traditional Pentecostals
Many traditional Pentecostals believe in the Gifts of the Spirit (including miracles, healings and Angels, etc)...but they're very wary, conservative in thinking and have a traditional mentality of the new breed of Ministers who claim to be modern day Apostles or Prophets (note - David Wilkerson would be a prophet many in this camp would recognize).
tribe/gang #3: Charismatics/ Word of Faith
This camp of believers is more open to modern day Prophets, Apostles, Angels Miracles, Healings, etc.
This camp itself can be divided too. I address the two major camps here:
camp #1 many Charismatics/ Word of Faith people will attack the Lakeland Revival because as the saying goes -- the previous move of God will attack the new move of God.
camp #2 These Charismatics/ Word of Faith people are believers in practically any sign, wonder, goosebump, teaching, manifestation that comes along. Most folks in this camp support the Lakeland Outpouring.
Summary: There definitely needs to be close scrutiny and critique of the Lakeland Outpouring and TB.
However, my challenge to all is this. When critiquing the Lakeland Outpouring and TB, make sure you do it with righteous judgment (John 7:24) and not from a religious, tribal/gang or camp mentality.
Search your heart and see if you're a "gang" member judge or judging from a clean, righteous heart.
ps If your judgment is from a tribal/gang mentality, is your judgment even legit?
ps Warning -- and all of you all who just believe everything is from God, yes, have faith, but wise up and test the spirits.
1 John 4:1
[ Testing the Spirits ] Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Much of the criticism (and I'm not saying criticism is unwarranted) is tribal.
Yes, tribal...like gang affiliations.
Let me explain.
tribe/gang #1: Cessationists
Many internet posts/blogs/articles that constantly attack the Lakeland Outpouring can be categorized into theological camps (again, like tribal/gang mentality).
Many of the worst critics are from the cessationist camp. Cessationists believe all the Gifts of the Spirit ceased with the last Apostle roughly 2000 years ago. Though many cessationists are solid in many aspects of the Word, they absolutely blow it here (in their theology) as several hundred million legitimate born-again Pentecostal/ Charismatics worldwide can attest.
So why would anyone involved in the Lakeland Outpouring listen to a cessationist? Many cessationists believe all Pentecostal/ Charismatics are either NOT saved or deceived to the max for speaking in tongues, et al.
tribe/gang #2: traditional Pentecostals
Many traditional Pentecostals believe in the Gifts of the Spirit (including miracles, healings and Angels, etc)...but they're very wary, conservative in thinking and have a traditional mentality of the new breed of Ministers who claim to be modern day Apostles or Prophets (note - David Wilkerson would be a prophet many in this camp would recognize).
tribe/gang #3: Charismatics/ Word of Faith
This camp of believers is more open to modern day Prophets, Apostles, Angels Miracles, Healings, etc.
This camp itself can be divided too. I address the two major camps here:
camp #1 many Charismatics/ Word of Faith people will attack the Lakeland Revival because as the saying goes -- the previous move of God will attack the new move of God.
camp #2 These Charismatics/ Word of Faith people are believers in practically any sign, wonder, goosebump, teaching, manifestation that comes along. Most folks in this camp support the Lakeland Outpouring.
Summary: There definitely needs to be close scrutiny and critique of the Lakeland Outpouring and TB.
However, my challenge to all is this. When critiquing the Lakeland Outpouring and TB, make sure you do it with righteous judgment (John 7:24) and not from a religious, tribal/gang or camp mentality.
Search your heart and see if you're a "gang" member judge or judging from a clean, righteous heart.
ps If your judgment is from a tribal/gang mentality, is your judgment even legit?
ps Warning -- and all of you all who just believe everything is from God, yes, have faith, but wise up and test the spirits.
1 John 4:1
[ Testing the Spirits ] Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
# posted by : 8:12 AM
: 8:12 AM This really isn't a hard one. Just compare it to any of the "revivals" that history records and people generally agree upon was "revival" and you will see a stark difference.
Spurgeon, Whitfield, et al. You will see a remarkable difference. If those "revivals" were a prototype...where is the deep since of repentence...where is the "fear" of God...where is the sense of the Holiness of God...where is the preaching of the gospel and the word of God that brought conviction..?
Spurgeon, Whitfield, et al. You will see a remarkable difference. If those "revivals" were a prototype...where is the deep since of repentence...where is the "fear" of God...where is the sense of the Holiness of God...where is the preaching of the gospel and the word of God that brought conviction..?
Scotty,
Your tribal rational doesn't really work. I'm a charasmatic so where does that leave me?
Why can't it be that many see what Todd does personally as an attack on scripture (his theology) and an atack on the character and nature of God (methodology)?
That doesn't make anyone pharisees or even "religious". It means that people are paying attention and being bereans who "searched the scriptures to see if these things were true".
Your tribal rational doesn't really work. I'm a charasmatic so where does that leave me?
Why can't it be that many see what Todd does personally as an attack on scripture (his theology) and an atack on the character and nature of God (methodology)?
That doesn't make anyone pharisees or even "religious". It means that people are paying attention and being bereans who "searched the scriptures to see if these things were true".
I am a former criticizer and then I got in a meeting where the glory of God pinned me to the floor and humbled me.
Peter made a lot of mistakes, had to be constantly rebuked, but was the first to risk everything for God. He even got off base in his doctrine and had to be rebuked by Paul publicly....but when's the last time you preached and 3000 got saved? Todd is weird and so is the bible.
A guy stood up 2 weeks ago in TN and cut down the revival and Todd and 2 days later was dead.
BEWARE OF THE LEAVE OF THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES.
Peter made a lot of mistakes, had to be constantly rebuked, but was the first to risk everything for God. He even got off base in his doctrine and had to be rebuked by Paul publicly....but when's the last time you preached and 3000 got saved? Todd is weird and so is the bible.
A guy stood up 2 weeks ago in TN and cut down the revival and Todd and 2 days later was dead.
BEWARE OF THE LEAVE OF THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES.
# posted by : 7:03 PM
: 7:03 PM Scotty, great comment! I came into the church out of needles, crack pipes, mental wards etc., and i am a walking miracle (we all are). I should be dead and or incarcerated, less than 3% of people make it out at the level i was addicted. I have seen darkness, i was tortured in my mind and body for well over a decade.
I have also seen light and i have been delivered to the point that i have lost count of the people that have accepted Jesus through my ministry unto Him. There is alot of man at times in lakeland. unfortunate but true. The presence of God is incredibly attractive, people come, ministry leaders included, and we come the way we are.
That unfortunately in the presence of God manifests itself in non biblical and sometimes goofy ways, but...people are being healed, delivered, redeeemed, and the list goes on. We as the church should be first on our knees, daily, for Gods presence to continue and multiply, for our involvement, everybody involved, to mature. For the flesh that will show up at every move of God, to be overshadowed, IN EVERYBODIES MINDS EYE, by what God is doing,and specifically for Todd bentley and his team to learn how to naviget new waters in holy fashion.
for all the naysayers i have experienced a side of darkness that though it exists for most people it only exists like that in the movies. i used to get choked, my wife witnessed these manifestations, i have literally been picked up off my bed. Thats darkness, all those goofy little tendencies and questionable teachings, pale to when darkness really shows up.
So...pray and then...pray...and then pray. Give thanks for Todd, for his team, for God TV, for the people, the souls the healings etc. if it doesn't lift people up than my opinion keep it to yourself. we all have a certain amount of flesh in our ministries. thats the truth and thats a fact. period.
I have also seen light and i have been delivered to the point that i have lost count of the people that have accepted Jesus through my ministry unto Him. There is alot of man at times in lakeland. unfortunate but true. The presence of God is incredibly attractive, people come, ministry leaders included, and we come the way we are.
That unfortunately in the presence of God manifests itself in non biblical and sometimes goofy ways, but...people are being healed, delivered, redeeemed, and the list goes on. We as the church should be first on our knees, daily, for Gods presence to continue and multiply, for our involvement, everybody involved, to mature. For the flesh that will show up at every move of God, to be overshadowed, IN EVERYBODIES MINDS EYE, by what God is doing,and specifically for Todd bentley and his team to learn how to naviget new waters in holy fashion.
for all the naysayers i have experienced a side of darkness that though it exists for most people it only exists like that in the movies. i used to get choked, my wife witnessed these manifestations, i have literally been picked up off my bed. Thats darkness, all those goofy little tendencies and questionable teachings, pale to when darkness really shows up.
So...pray and then...pray...and then pray. Give thanks for Todd, for his team, for God TV, for the people, the souls the healings etc. if it doesn't lift people up than my opinion keep it to yourself. we all have a certain amount of flesh in our ministries. thats the truth and thats a fact. period.
# posted by : 7:14 PM
: 7:14 PM you knowi shouldhave identified myself in that whole opinion abbout lakeland right before this one so...Brad Herman
# posted by : 7:16 PM
: 7:16 PM what about the healings? scary question because people will even try to discredit those. Brad Herman
# posted by : 7:29 PM
: 7:29 PM Man! I love what you said about us being fully born of the Spirit and of the flesh. What a strange amalgam we are, those of us who are redeemed. We have to find that balance...God is asking some of us to walk that line and I believe some of us will actually take Him up on that. I hope I have the courage to be one of those. In past weeks, I have had to confront that religious pride and judgement even in my own HOME, and it's an ugly, ugly thing. ICK! I have come to the point that I believe...especially in Pentecostal circles... that we have been conditioned to NOT think for ourselves. I read and re-read the post comparing our relationship with Jesus as one with a husband and a wife. I have to wholeheartedly concur.
Many believers have been spoon-fed for so long that they do not and have not cultivated a TRULY PERSONAL relationship with Christ. It is one of the reasons we encounted this "flesh-fest" we see so many people flailing against. If Christians are not encouraged to find God for themselves, what recourse is there for them? They become completely dependent on the man or woman dispensing the teaching to them! HELLO??? Isn't this the true issue? American believers, with their overwhelming access to The Word, Christian TV, Christian Radio, Sunday Services, have been content to follow whomever is set in front of them, without taking the initiative to follow up once they cross the threshold of the church and step out into the world on their own. WE HAVE CAUSED THE PROBLEM! It is no wonder we follow certain leaders and have "tribes" and "gangs". I am 35 years old. I have finally figured out that the old-line Pentecostal group I was raised in and my family is still aligned with made it their business to invade areas of our home life they had NO BUSINESS invading. There was no encouragement to seek on your own, lest you be "led astray". Look I am Spirit-filled, and as such, the same spirit that made Jesus fully God in a flesh covered container also resides in me. HE WILL LEAD ME IN ALL TRUTH...but for so long MEN have dictated what THAT IS many of us function on "auto pilot". "Headquarters has handed this memo down saying...{fill in the blank} so it must be so!" Where is the motivation to seek Him so you can find Him for yourself? If believers were encouraged to do just that and develop their own relationship with Jesus, then we wouldn't have these idiotic questions flying around "IS IT OF GOD? IS IT DEMONIC?" Good grief! Get to know God personally, know His character, His personality, how He is with you AS AN INDIVIDUAL! Then this stuff will be a non-issue and the bride can be crazy in love with her groom and they can sweep this world with a love and a peace it is clamoring for...just how I see it
Many believers have been spoon-fed for so long that they do not and have not cultivated a TRULY PERSONAL relationship with Christ. It is one of the reasons we encounted this "flesh-fest" we see so many people flailing against. If Christians are not encouraged to find God for themselves, what recourse is there for them? They become completely dependent on the man or woman dispensing the teaching to them! HELLO??? Isn't this the true issue? American believers, with their overwhelming access to The Word, Christian TV, Christian Radio, Sunday Services, have been content to follow whomever is set in front of them, without taking the initiative to follow up once they cross the threshold of the church and step out into the world on their own. WE HAVE CAUSED THE PROBLEM! It is no wonder we follow certain leaders and have "tribes" and "gangs". I am 35 years old. I have finally figured out that the old-line Pentecostal group I was raised in and my family is still aligned with made it their business to invade areas of our home life they had NO BUSINESS invading. There was no encouragement to seek on your own, lest you be "led astray". Look I am Spirit-filled, and as such, the same spirit that made Jesus fully God in a flesh covered container also resides in me. HE WILL LEAD ME IN ALL TRUTH...but for so long MEN have dictated what THAT IS many of us function on "auto pilot". "Headquarters has handed this memo down saying...{fill in the blank} so it must be so!" Where is the motivation to seek Him so you can find Him for yourself? If believers were encouraged to do just that and develop their own relationship with Jesus, then we wouldn't have these idiotic questions flying around "IS IT OF GOD? IS IT DEMONIC?" Good grief! Get to know God personally, know His character, His personality, how He is with you AS AN INDIVIDUAL! Then this stuff will be a non-issue and the bride can be crazy in love with her groom and they can sweep this world with a love and a peace it is clamoring for...just how I see it
Marcus, you write: "I am convinced God is trying to redeem such a culture through this current move. As I hoped to convey in my previous blog posting (but obviously didn’t), we are an odd but beautiful mixture of flesh and spirit: 100 percent spirit and 100 percent flesh, as was our Savior, Jesus. Christ never once abandoned the spirit realm, but neither did He forsake His status as a Spirit-filled container of flesh. He did His Father’s will through both, but in doing so, He had to overcome the culture surrounding Him."
Thanks for clarifying your view on this position. Good post.
Thanks for clarifying your view on this position. Good post.
i had a neighbor call me up once and inform me that my boys were walking down the street using horrible language in a very loud voice. so when they got home we had a discussion and in this discussion i required that they repeatedly in a loud voice state why they were cussing with their friends.
the result was comical, my boys sitting there yelling i cuss to be cool. needless to say they pretty easily ceased from the behavior after hearing themselves admit that they had based their peer acceptance on profanity.
So i present the same challenge here...loudly in front of your peers begin to repeat this loudly..."the devil is healing people in Lakeland Florida." Sounds silly doesn't it!
Brad Herman
the result was comical, my boys sitting there yelling i cuss to be cool. needless to say they pretty easily ceased from the behavior after hearing themselves admit that they had based their peer acceptance on profanity.
So i present the same challenge here...loudly in front of your peers begin to repeat this loudly..."the devil is healing people in Lakeland Florida." Sounds silly doesn't it!
Brad Herman
# posted by : 10:15 AM
: 10:15 AM I get a kick out of the fact that most of the negative posts on this blog were posted anonymously. :)
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