Amen, Matt.

I'm proud of Jim Bakker's book, "I Was Wrong," I just wish it didn't take incarceration and toilet-cleaning for him to realize that Jesus' gospel is less about the kingdom I can buy now than the Kingdom in the now and not-yet.

I'm undecided as to which is worse, and which will send more people to Hell: universalism and Pearson's close cousin "inclusionism," or prosperity doctrine. On the one hand, preachers are saying you don't need to bow to Christ the Lord, and on the other hand preachers are saying you can live like a lord, just read my "Ten Keys" book.

Over and over again I keep seeing two monsters in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles which rears its ugly head every few years: 1) Too little discipleship and education leads to a lack of discernment and false theology (read: heresy) and 2) Too many young, charismatic preachers ordained into leadership and ministry long before they are mature, spiritually formed, and prepared. Our traditions are littered with burn-outs who ascended to the pulpit in their early teens and twenties and wowed crowds with their passion and fire.

We need to return to the "Full Gospel" instead of manufacturing our own. We need to absorb the Word so the Paraclete can stimulate our thinking. We need to refrain from sending babes into the field to labor as adults, and we need, desperately need, better discipleship.

Regards,

Rich
BlogRodent
 

Matt, I’m joining with the ‘amen’ to this. As ever this is a coherent and engaging piece… I’ll stop being an ex-teacher now, but I’d like to ask a question: how come so few comments? And another one: will you get in trouble for writing a piece like this?
And here are some more:
How much of this is about socio-economic background? Is it patronising to suggest that those from poorer backgrounds go for prosperity teaching for selfish reasons?
Anyway, nice article. Thanks.
 

Craig,

I would like to respond to the question you posed. I would not say it's patronizing to suggest that poor people are more likely to buy into the prosperity heresy, I would say that it's ignorant (and I don't mean that in a demeaning manner). It has long been thought that only the poor are being fleeced, but there are members of congregations that are giving pastors cars, jewelry, in extreme examples, homes, etc as well as money. Most poor people can't afford to give away homes. Look at Copelands. Do you think the people in that congregation are poor? I've visited World Changers in Atlanta, several mega churches in the Washington DC/Maryland Metro area and I can tell you, these are not poor people. As a matter of fact, you have to look long and hard to find the poor. The last mentioned area is actually home to one of the wealthiest African American communities in the country. The average home price for most of the area is about 400-500 thousand dollars. The rich are just as susceptible to false teachers as the poor.
 

You guys really just need to relax. People believe and do what they WANT to do (no matter what is being taught). Prosperity is just like any other topic (healing, restoration, deliverance, salvation), believe it will work, if you don't it won't ! If you know-it-all prosperity haters really want to prove a point on how "horrible" prosperity is..just don't go to work tommorow....or ever. Be poor in the name of Jesus... That will show us !

Signed,

A Wealthy Christian that will never return to poverty no matter what the modern day Saducees (Sad-you-see) say.
 

Dear "Anonymous" wealthy Christian,

Your standard of pragmatism may truly "work" for you in the here-and-now. But Christ tells us plainly that even those whose faith "works" may not pass those pearly gates. Even working miracles in his name is no guarantee of ultimate efficacy.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' (Matthew 7:21-23)

The key question here is whether the prosperity doctrine is the will of the Father.

My Bible says it is not.

For further information see Paul in prison. See Paul destitute. See Jesus without a stone to lay his head on. Lee John on the isle of Patmos. See the churches in Jerusalem for whom Paul took up offerings. See the entire Global South where Christianity flourishes in the most dreadful conditions. See the Chinese house churches.

This kind of thinking is the same logic that Mormons use. "Just read the Book of Mormon, and pray sincerely that God show you whether this is true or not." When your heart warms, it's confirmation.

But the measure of "feel-good-about -it" and the pragmatic "it works for me" is not the standard of the Gospel.

Jesus doesn't work for you. You work for him.

Regards,

Rich
BlogRodent
 

In the early 80s I was very much a part of this movement, having graduated from one of its Bible schools. Having seen the inside workings of several of the more well-known WOF evangelists at that time, I believe that this movement functions at its highest levels just like pyramid-marketing schemes.

Because they believe what they are teaching, they see themselves as acting on God's wishes when they make someone else's prayer request happen. Not one of these ministers can breathe a prayer request outloud for a material item that there is not someone close by ready to be the answer to that prayer.

It works all the way down the chain until you reach the broader public who while they can see it "working" above them, don't understand that their neighborhood in this movement doesn't have enough people with the means to make these answers come true.

Everyone is guilty of misinterpreting other's actions and our own resourcefulness as the hand of God extended. The point of truth is determined here - does this "answered prayer" advance the Kingdom of God or does it only advance the receiver?

I will be happy to reexamine this movement's "theology" when I see it bearing fruit in places of true poverty and desperate want. Why are none of these ministers holding prosperity clinics in Darfur or better yet, bringing prosperity to those starving under the dictatorially imposed poverty of North Korea?

It doesn't work outside of a group of dedicated believers who use their own means and power to act as God, while fooling themselves that this impresses God.

Beware of both false teachers and the idolatry they inspire in their followers.
 

There is no sin in being rich, however when riches become the center of your life or even the foundation of your will, then you invite the jealousy of God into your life.

I wonder how those who are rich would respond to the challenge of Christ to the rich young ruler would respond if the Lord were to simply ask them to surrender their wealth and give it to the poor?

I know a few well off men and women of God, who have not lost sight of the kingdom, however I sincerely belive they would return to poverty if their wealth became an offense to the service of the Lord.

But those are few and far between, after all, some one once said it's as difficult as a camal going through the eye of a needle, not impossible but difficult...now who was it that said that...hmmmm. (smiles)
 

I've been leery of WOF teachers for a long time, though I've been blessed by some tapes I've heard of some of them. However, one of a somewhat different stripe is in the Seattle area: Wendell Smith, of Seattle City Church. He's got a book out, "Prosperity with Purpose," that I feel answers a lot of the objections. By the way, he's not a high-flier; I know him personally, and there's a strong core of commitment to the Word in its entirety.
For my own bona fides, I'm a "Bapticostal" independent, self-supporting (bi-vocational) missionary in Japan. My father was a Southern Baptist missionary and seminary professor, his father was a Southern Baptist pastor, and my maternal grandfather was a Southern Baptist seminary professor. The Word is the Word!
 

i want to know your virsion of the gosple becose it semes that every one has one but as far as i am concerned i belive god want as to prosper and be healed as wall as walk in holinass dont tellme that becouse u are rich you can not wolk in intagrity how about abrham and tham i just a litl bet confused that what is the difination of prosprity isall about money or wholness whcich is to prosper in your soul spirit and body pls dont try to get confused people yourself by opposing some prosperity prechers why dont you teach as the truth with out being afired or try to give a counterattac and u dont need to mantion a name by the way all u need to do is tech us the truth about the gosple and i belive the gosple is for the poor as wall as for the wealthy people becouise it is not all about the money ...you shell know the truth and the truth shell set you freey
 

I believe that this false teaching of "Name-it, Claim-It" is destroying the faith of far too many sincere Christians who can ill afford to make the huge offerings asked, based on a scripture chapter and verse taken WAY out of context, beacuse it sounds good and brings in big bucks. I always get disgusted at tehse "Praise-A-Thons" on TBN and TCT. There is enough truth to make it enticing, but you simply can't bribe God...period.

I bought into this theology for awhile, and I never saw the promised blessings and quite honestly it hurt my faith and lowered my level of trust in God. The only ones getting rich are the ones preaching the message, or those who already have a comfortable financial picture.

Scripturally, all I see is that we are promised persecution and trials and suffering. God will bless my crops if I tithe and give First-Fruits offerings...but I don't have any crops and I don't have any extra cash laying around. Granted, God has made a way to keep my bills paid, but no extra beyond that.

I think we need to forget about this feel-good theology and preach the truth, which is some are rich some are poor...God makes the choice who is which one and there is nothing we can do about it except be a model employee and work as unto the Lord.

We are being deceived, no matter how well-meaning these preachers may be.
 

Dear Matt,

Do you know everything about the Word of Faith Movement? You know that there is no doctrine on holiness or suffering.

Wouldn't it be more honest to say I need to talk to some of these people to find out what their doctrine is on holiness or suffering? Instead you presume that we have none or don't even preach it.

My husband is a Pastor, and leader among a group of organized ministers. We also have been very close to one of the "founders" who has gone home to be with the Lord.

My dear sir, there has been preaching on suffering, holiness, sacrifice by one of the founders and by many fellow pastors around the US and world that we know personally.

Perhaps some of those you refer to who are the most visible on TV you have not heard do that...perhaps they do in their churches. Do you know? Or do you just criticize without real knowledge.

My husband has taught for years that "Prosperity without a purpose is greed".

Also, MANY missionaries we know personally teach properity around the world...and example...a man in Africa believed God for a bicycle (like a Mercereds in the US) for the PURPOSE of preaching the gospel to other villiages. This does work in other countries...for a purpose..and it is preached for a purpose by MANY. Just people you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't exisit.

A friend of mine preached at a Word of Faith Church in Indonesia a few months ago....2,000 people...their purpose, living in joy and victory amist extreme persecution and getting and seeing many born again and filled with the Holy Spirit.

But, of course the critics aren't close enough to the movement to know these stories.

And, in my opinion, there are some who are off balance with it. I agree with that completely. But you do not know about or acknowledge the many Pastors and missionaries that do exsist.

So perhaps you need to get in with some other circles of the Word of Faith Movement than what you are...although the critcism hasn't seemed to stop this messaage.
 

Matt, I have always wondered how the Apostle Paul's life experiences fit in with the Word/Faith movement. I guess he didn't know about the "name it and claim it" theology. Read 2Corinthians 11: 21b-28. Where was the wealth? Where was the health?
 

At one time I too shunned the WOF ministers and would not even listen to them PERIOD!!

But 4 years ago a new church was started in our area by a WOF man and I truly think that most people who have such strong opinions against have either not sat under the true teaching of WOF or the minister they heard didn't preach the word in it's entirety or balance.

This teaching has caused my husband and I to try to get our lives more focused on freeing up our finances and our time to be able to do more work for the kingdom. To get back to the basics of the bible. Loving one another, not causing strife, not gossiping, etc. etc.

Our pastor encourages us to give outside of our church and to be spirit led in our giving (that's a whole other topic).

I have seen people who lived in their car, no job, turn their lives around and come up to a higher level of good job, living in an apartment, paying off old debts. I have seen these principles work in the lives of our entire congregation and our own as well. We're all a work in progress!!

I say all that to say, prosperity should be for more than our own wealth and things and when the word is followed correctly those things come. But the main focus of prosperity should be to further the KINGDOM OF GOD. In today's system we need money to do that. As we are faithful to God, he will be faithful.
 

I've been a student in a Bible College of one of these mentioned "prosperity" ministers. While feeling high and elated to be a student there, I soon saw MUCH that saddened and sickened me. My journey into what I thought would be a spiritual Cannan land quickly became a valley of Bacca. Your article is so quick to the core of truth. Prosperity preaching guarantees the prosperity of only one person and that's the preacher himself. How? Because, according to his/her's manipulative theory of the pathway to prosperity, the listener begins the road to prosperity by "planting a seed" into the SPEAKER'S ministry to kick things off! What a plan! It works for the speaker so on and on it goes! So sad but apparently so addictive and effective for the ministry. I learned a lot about God and ministry while there ... both WHAT to do and WHAT NOT to do.
 

In the early 90's I was sent to pastor a small church on the back side of the desert in Nevada. My wife and I were in our middle thirties and had learned faithfulness, but did not realize that we we did not know much about faith.

Our congregation had ten or so families, and I soon discovered that three of them were Word of Faith disciples.

Up to this point, I had no real contact with WOF, except the knowledge that my denomination and many others were negative concerning them. So, before I rebuked them of their heresy, I thought it would be a good idea to read for myself what these faith teachers were saying.

My wife and I poured through books and listened to many audio teachings. It was a tremendous experience and changed our lives. We are so thankful for the teaching concerning the power of the Word and the power of developing our faith.

I believe there are many within the "prosperity movement" that have placed an overemphasis on wealth. (I shudder at times with some of the things I hear on Christian television.) I would though say that it is impossible to fulfill The Great Commission if I am in poverty. David said ijn Psalm 23, "The Lord is my shepherd and I shall not lack."

It will be difficult for me to obey God's command to impact the whole world for Christ if I live with a continuous lack in health, energy, finances, favor, knowledge, wisdom, power and love. 2 Corinthians 9:6-8 speaks of God's plan for us to walk in this "abundance with a purpose."

"But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work."

I am believing for and seeing a greater abundance to impact the world for Jesus. I thank the WOF teachers for helping me understand this.
 

There are plenty of people who have used the Bible for their own gain. I Timothy warns us of them. But it doesn't mean that we should not accept the truth that is in the Bible just becaues some people have misused it.

The problem is that we MAINLY hear about those and SEE those who misuse teaching on properity and healing. What about those who rightly divide the Word of God. Those who believe God to increase financially so that they can support missionaries, give to the poor etc. That is what our Word of Faith home church is ALL about!!!
 

What happened to pursuing peace and unity?

I read this article and some of the comments and am deeply saddened. Our prayers are that the Body of Christ will someday stop pointing fingers at one another, major on the majors and pursue peace and unity to receive the blessings God has for us.

There were 12 tribes of Israel, each with different purposes--but God clearly said the blessings would result from unity. I don't remember reading in my Bible that criticizing others would bring blessing or change.
 

I went to the Time Story you referred to. I wouldn't want to have much to do with it the way that it was portrayed.

I consider myself to be a part of the Word of Faith Movement. I espouse the truth of the Bible...however I don't link myself up with the ways that others may interpret it.

Like John Osteen used to say, "God is not going to give you everyting your greedy little eyes look at."

And when you are focued on eternity you are using the message of healing to benefit others, not yourself.

I drive a Mercedes. Why? It is a safe car to drive in Southern California, and having had an accident this week...I'm glad I have it. But I am content to drive any car!

We chose to drive a our Honda for 10 years in order to give more $$ to our church bldg fund.

We were just as properous driving the Honda as the Mercedes. Because who I am in Him is the provision and victory I walk in, not the kind of car I drive.

I'd recommended that Christians find a good Word of Faith Church with a good solid pastor. It might prove to be much different than you think.
 

To Larry Perry:

Following your interpretation of Christian conduct, Paul would have never confronted Peter, and certainly not have recorded it in an open letter to a church (Galatians 2:11-21).

I am not really sure how you are going to circumvent that; it is, after all, in the Word.
 

I'm almost 60 years old, and I've seen how the older generation lived. They followed God (the majority) wheather they were rich, poor, or in-between. This new message was (originally) brought in, as a balance (in my belief) to get people out of the notion that being poor was Godly. Kenneth Hagin lived true to God, no matter if he had a car, and went on the bus to peach his (balanced) message on the bus, knowing that God wanted him to prosper. I would recommend (highly) his book (since we've come to that, etc.) entitled; The Midas Touch. Wow! He said, that a lot of this teaching had gotten off balanced, and wasn't based on Scripture. Now, when one of the Founders writes a book about the Prosperity message, (and this was over 5 years years before his death, as well!) then you KNOW it's gotten "off track." It's gotten pretty ridiculous, in my opinion, when my own sister-in-law didn't like some things I was telling her (about the Mormons) and she said," well! I don't see how you're right, as YOU aren't being blessed abundantly by God!" Come on! Then Paul was way off track, being in prison, wasn't he? Although I'm not in any authority, I would caution people to get back on track, and go back to your first love, which isn't money! And what about the world's situation? Where IS the teaching of the Rapture? Now that's even being disputed. As Kenneth Hagin once said, "it doesn't matter what you think about the Rapture, it will happen. The Bible said it would, and Jesus said it would, as well." So, the real question is: Are you ready to meet Jesus face to face, and what are you doing with your money, and time now? We all will have to give an account, according to my Bible.
 

There must be BALANCE in what is preached and taught in ALL areas of church doctrine, precepts and beliefs. Prosperity HAS its place and should be expounded upon, emphasizing that real success - which ain't always measured in money or material wealth - can be obtained thru applying God's principles found in His Word. At the same time, prosperity SHOULD NEVER be used as a means of intimidation or manipulation, as many of these so-called "prosperity preachers" have used it. They use the Biblical principle of reaping & sowing as a tool to build up their own "kingdom" and assets, instead of upbuilding God's Kingdom! They have prostituted the Gospel for their own personal, financial gain!
When I think of Christ's message, I see more SACRIFICE than prosperity. When I think of sacrifice and meekness, lowliness, and humility, I think NOT of Schambauch, Hinn, Bakker, Swaggert,
Olsteen, Long, Crouch, or others. Instead, I think of the late Mother Theresa - who not only could sympathize with the down-trodden, poor, sick, and afflicted - SHE COULD EMPATHIZE with them, becoming ALL things to all people! She refused the comforts and fame afforded to her by her prominence, and remained meager in order to be able to relate - or EMPATHIZE - with those who needed to hear this Gospel message, but were often shunned by some of the "Christian Super Stars!" Thank you, Mother Theresa, and the rest of the unsung heroes of our faith, who display true Christ-likeness in their lives of sacrifice and struggle! JTB
 

Dear Matt,

I've read the book by Kenneth Hagin, "The Midas Touch". You may want to read it.

It shows great balance and purpose to the "prosperity" teaching.

Beth Webb
 

The Word-Faith people are teaching presumption. Thirty-three years ago, my failure to study the Bible for myself caused a great tragedy in my life. I believed what other men taught about faith and irrationally acted in a way that caused the death of my eleven-year-old son. That disaster caused me to search the Bible as nothing else could. Since than, I have been a serious student of God’s word. I decided to set aside my denominational teachings, and read the Bible with an unbiased mind. Looking to the Holy Spirit to guide me, I uncovered surprising results about faith and other traditional subjects in the Bible. I have written a book “No Spin Faith†that exposes the errors of the Word-Faith movement. However, I am unable to find a publisher with the courage to publish it. Why Not?
 

I am just a lay person and I don't really fully understand what the "faith movement" entails. Its peak was a little before my time.

But here are some thoughts from one who can still remember being on both sides of the fence (rich and poor / saved and unsaved).

Jim Baker did a lot of damage. So did Jimmy Swaggert (sp?).

I do believe God wants us to prosper us. But that doesn't mean just materially. That means with peace, joy, love, etc. I don't believe God wants to reward greed.

At first I thought--they wrote that book and are entitled to those profits. Good for you.

Then I started thinking about what I would do if I had millions. I thought about how Billy Graham has an untarnished name and is respected. His books are published through his ministry so I assume the profits go back into his ministry and not into his pocket. He continues to live simply.

I also thought about a newspaper column written by a secular man who noted that Jerry Jenkins gave away 10% of his money made from the Left Behind series. He also asked why, when he made millions, he didn't give away more.

I thought about a man I know who wondered about those big evangelical festivals. He went to one and felt duped because they didn't advertise they were Christians bent on proselytizing--and he wondered why they would spend all that money on (poor quality) entertainment when they could have done something constructive like help the poor.

I have watched some of the stuff on Christian television and it gets very confusing. I have watched a pastor basically tell her audience to send her "seed" money and God would reward your faith and help you pay those bills you can't pay. So dig yourself even deeper into the hole--but give this pastor money. I later learned that she and her husband are now extremely wealthy. I have no respect for her. I wouldn't touch a book of hers even if I needed it for kindling in a winter storm.

So I guess I have concluded that it isn't just about us and our wealth and comfort. It is about being different and letting people see our difference. And there are people suffering out there--so I'm not sure our comfort is really a priority.

Because his name was mentioned, may I give a little different perspective on Joel Osteen? Out of fairness, I have heard he no longer accepts a salary for his work at Overlake. I know he is criticized because he says he doesn't talk about sin--and I know that is serious. But--please allow me to say he has helped me. God put me through some fires to magnify some flaws in me that I couldn't see previously. One part of that was negative thinking--which developed so early in life that I didn't realize it was there. It was a defense mechanism developed out of being treated cruelly at home growing up. I think I would try and anticipate harm so I could see it coming and not be blindsided. As I was stewing in my junk, Osteens words would help my pull my mind out of it. The result of that season is I am free of anxiety. My own Sr. Pastor at my large church still is plagued by anxiety. The Holy Spirit told me to think on those things that are good and lovely and pure (sorry for paraphrase) and Osteen helped me to apply it.

Also, before I was a Christian--I was living a sinful life and knew it deep down. But God carefully placed a Christian in my life. If they had ever mentioned sin--I would have been so ashamed (because I was already ashamed and afraid of my verison of God which was harsh and cruel)I would have never gone near them again. It is because this Christian never mentioned sin or religion that I felt safe and non-judged. I had never seen that before. Now, no one can stop me--I am one Jesus lovin' fool!!
 

Concerning the blog about dear Word-faith friends.It all concerns balance.Jesus Himself said that He preached the gospel to the poor.He provided food to the multitudes.In this day of natural disasters and such,it would be kind of hard to be a gospel witness to those homeless and hungry if you don't have it to give.It's pretty hard to preach the gospel to someone who's children's stomach's are distended because of hunger! You go ahead and be poor because you're suffering for Jesus.The suffering I'm going to experience will be because of the persecution for preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ! I'm into prosperity because the gospel MUST get out and it's gonna take money to do it. You go ahead and stay home and be satisfied with your poverty. My wife and I are going to all the world to preach the gospel in order to make our lord Jesus rich with souls.Heaven help me if I'm so selfish that all I'm concerned about is me, myself and I !
 

Well I agrre with Matt that the WOF doctrine is out of control. But I don't think its heresy, I think the way people teach it is heresy. God does not promise riches. However citing Paul having periods of lack doesn't strengthen an argument that God wants us all poor. Jesus talking about nowhere to lay his head was not a denouncement of possessions. He was answering a man who said Lord, I'll follow you anywhere." And like many times in His earthly ministry Jesus put his finger on a weak point in the man's life.

At my church we teach the gifts of the spirit in the CHarismatic movement, however we are a Baptist church. We believe in prosperity according to God's will. We don't believe God wants us living in a shack and driving a car that breaks every day and being terribly in debt. But on the other hand we believe in wisdom. We teach self denial. We teach that prosperity is so you have extra to help and pour into other people. When someone is in need at our church, we meet it. We believe in healing and miracles. Prosperity is Biblical. Getting people out of lack is a Biblical thing. Teaching on having a Rolls Royce in every driveway is a sign that someone needs to check and see if they are really sold out to God. Because that is error. We have a large 1500 member debt free church, but we are frugal. We believe God loves to answer our prayers....prayers prayed according to His will. His will is His Word. The problem is people have taken a Biblical doctrine (WOF) and they have gotten so out of balance that it looks nothing like the Word of God. I think if Smith Wigglesworth (one of the cited fathers of WOF) were alive today he would make whip out of cords and a few WOF evangelists would get driven out of leadership.
 

I have belonged to some of these Word of Faith Churches and have found far too often that the message is manipulative in nature. People are constantly asked for money for this project, preacher, or whatever. But the needs of the poor within that church are left unmet and many times people will not ask for help because of the scurging they receive from those meant to help them.
I am all for empowerment and favor,etc, but this group has missed the mark and made it a way of showing your position with God. They look down on people who do not drive new cars and live in million dollar homes. Too many of the people are living beyond their means at someone else's expense.
If your need has to be kept secret because of the way you will be treated, how healthy can it be?
To give a point about the manipulation, I have been in services where they have taken five offerings with the promise of blessings, favor, money, etc. It is never the dollar people they want but the 100. Those are the people who will be blessed. I guess they overlook the widows mite.
I stopped going to these type of churches because I cannot afford to be there.
Another thought is that far too many are sounding new age in their teaching. In fact, if you listen to the top in both venues you will be hard pressed to hear the difference.
 

Delores,

I'm with you. I go to a church with WOF leanings and they help needy people all the time. I am fortunate I have not seen the abuses you have. We actually have benevolence fund at my church to help people when they get into trouble. When we have encounter retreats those who can afford to go pay for those who can't. We preach prosperity but we preach a balance gospel with it. If anyone in our church "looked down on someone for what they wore, drive, or live in" our elders would have a serious meeting with them. I am shocked that this goes on is supposedly Biblical WOF churches. That is not what Brother Hagin, SMith Wigglesworth, or any of the giants of our faith taught. This teaching has been "highjacked" by radical abusers of the sheep.
 

I am amazed by some of the comments in this blog of the "all knowing ones" - I wonder what they are doing to reach a lost and dying world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The true Gospel needs no defense and will always stand the test of time. Opinions are many, while they all stand by their theology their own version of their misunderstanding of the truth - that's why there will be a half an hour silence in heaven for everyone to get their theology straitened out!
 

Well said
 

I would first like to thank my Father God from whom all blessings flow, because without Him I'm nothing. Col.2:15&18 states that the principalities and powers have been disarmed, and we should not let anyone cheat us out of our reward,and not to delight ourselves in false humility. I believe that this has been one of the biggest robbers of what our Father has for us. The devil came to do WHAT? To kill, steal, and destroy. If there wasn't anything for him to kill, steal, or destroy he'd be bored. However that's not the case and he's very good at his job, but as good as he is at what he does God is even better. Jesus came that we might have life more ABUNDANTLY. It's up to us to take it and to teach others that it's for all who want it. When the childern of Israel left out of Egypt they went out fully restored. There wasn't a feeble one among them and not only that but they went out prosperously. The Pharaoh told them to take what they wanted and leave so they did. We are not stealing from the devil we'er just taking back what he stole in the first place.God creater of all things gave it all to us to care for,but we gave it away so Jesus came and restored it back,and then some. I for one am taking it all back and I don't regret it at all. If we don't take it back then we are dishonoring our Father by wasting it.Those of us who have learned ths must teach and encourage others to do the same. The devil and his cohorts have been disarmed and now is the time to take up our weapons of the word, and make a show of him openly just as he has been doing for years. We serve an awesomely awesome God and He wants us to be prosperous more then we do.However we do need to keep a balance about how we go about it. Preaching the gospel isn't cheap but it's worth every penny after all populating heaven is the wisest way to invest our money. Just think with modern technology the sky is the limit on inventing new ways to do so.
 

Our church changed its name so that people who presume what the entirety of the Word of Faith Movement preaches would visit our church.

How can the people on this blog who haven't heard good balanced Word of FAith teaching presume to lump everyone into the same pot?

As a result we've had people come to our church, hear the sound Bible teaching of our pastor...find a greater degree of peace and joy in their lives (becuase they've leared to trust and not worry = prosperity)...and over a period of time as a result make better business decisions, do better financially...and yes.. Our Word of Faith church gives to the poor (all time time; we go on work missions trips, send people to Katrina ravaged areas and on an on!!!!). We support dozens of missionaries, who without our support would not be on the mission field.

And we are not alone! Many churches are like this!!!!

Why aren't churches like this ever in the Christian news? Are we not big enough or popular enough or controversial enough to report on?

I think that TRUE Word of Faith movement people preach the entire Word of God! Salvation, Healing, Prosperity, Stewardship, Wisdom, Love, Helping the Poor, etc. etc. I sat under the ministry of Kenneth Hagin for years. He preached all of this. I am not talking about a few sentances taken out of context....not all Word of Faith ministers are this way. Many do manipulate $$ out of people's pockets! I've seen it. It is disgusting and they'll have to answer to the Lord for using their place for gain. It is wrong. The Bible is very clear on it.

There is absolutely excess...but why is the excess highlighted and not the true? I think that is a fault of "Christian" media.

Show us some good balanced Word of Faith PASTOR"S of normal sized churches...who love people more than $$...yet, have means to use $$ to help reach others. They exist....!!!
 

Jim bakers Book - I was wrong - He should write another book I am wrong again - He is back to his old tricks again!
 

I read a Jewish rabbi's response to the Time article, "Does God Want Us To Be Rich?" He said that it was just as foolish as asking, "Does God Want Us To Have Great Sex?" His point is that of course God wants that for us, but that great sex only comes as a result of being in a monagamous, committed relationship.

That's the same way prosperity works. It's not a get rich quick scheme. It's a lifestyle of committment, giving and obedience to God. Prosperity is less about money than it is about freedom to do what God puts on your heart to do.

That is part of "the word of faith" that Paul preached (Romans 10:8).

(Written by a Word of Faith pastor)
 

What a crap! While I read articles like this, I am more assured that we Church need to grow up (GROW UP!!!). May I ask You which one movement of God was better or most accurate? Methodist? Holiness? Pentacostal? Latter Rain? Charismatic? Vineyard? Faith Movement? Prophetic Movement? Or maybe House Church Movement? The Answer is - none of them and all of them. Why? Because all of them brings one (or few) particular truths to the church that was earler burned down by so called "Dark Ages". I appreciate very much wesleyan revival for they commitment to "conversion/redemption truth", but does being converted christian is a whole of truth? No, so God wake up another movement to reveal another part of truth to the church. There is God's plan and purpose in wesleyan movement as it is in... attention... Faith Movement, surprised? As I watch Faith Movement from many years, I could see that they grown up. It is not already (as we call it in Poland) pink-gospel. I can see now as they focus not only on money and prosperity, but also on things like spiritual growth, great commision or holiness. For example, in last few years issues of Kopeland's BVOV Magazine I could mention just few articles on prosperity, and much much more on love, spiritual growth, developing God's character, and unity in the Body of Christ. Thanks God for Kenneth Hagin's books on trusting God and living in faith, they helps a lot of people in my country to live a successful christian life. Thank God for FaithMovement's teaching on God's integrity and our identity in Christ. I Believe we need each other, because as Rick Joyner once stated "Not 'I have the mind of Christ', but we all have the Mind of Christ, so we need each other's experiences and knowledge of God"
If you don't like books like "Teen Keys for..." or "Ninety nine steps to..." don't read them, maybe you don't need them to grow in the Lord.

Let God bless ya richly!

Chiefer (from Poland)
 

I realize that when Matt speaks like this (and when I speak in these tones of speech) we're perceived as overwrought, too wound up, etc. I tell you, it's the beginning of the revolution against prosperity/seeker sensitive/hogwash/milque-toast/narcissitic Chrsitianity. I have for several years wanted to post a new "label" to the church I pastor, to distance myself from what's being done in the name of "Pentecost." What label you ask? How about Reformed Pentecostal - no, I'm not referring to an Arminian/Calvanistic debate, but rather a return to the classic holiness, reverence and sacrifice of men like my great-granddad - who preached in tents in the Depression in the Dust Bowl of Oklahoma. No church could put him on full time, but there are still people today who speak of his integrity and anointing. Oh for simplicity, an embracing of the cross, of a self-less, Christ-filled life of serving the King.
 

The best definition of biblical prosperity I have ever heard is: "Having sufficient resources to do the will of God." The Lord wants us to finance the work of world evangelism and help others who are suffering from genuine material lack. Doing this requires having more than just enough to meet our own legitimate needs (such as providing for our children's welfare, etc.), but also being able to "abound unto every good work," to use the KJV rendering of Paul's promise to the Corinthians. This sometimes involves true sacrifice.

Problems arise when God’s good and generous character is preached without any real call to Christ-like compassion for others or submission to His lordship. Following Jesus in every way includes being willing to allow Him to determine what standard of living is appropriate for our earthly existence in light of the specific and unique things He wants us to accomplish.

Preaching the legitimate biblical truth about God’s plan to prosper His people without also calling listeners to embrace godly contentment, sacrificial giving for the good of others who have spiritual or material needs, and complete submission to the lordship of Jesus, results in ministry that appeals to people’s greed instead of helping them conform to Christ’s image. Teaching prosperity in the context of the Father’s desire to relieve human suffering and bring every individual to salvation results in a message that will ring true in every era and culture.

President George W. Bush spoke of “compassionate conservatism.†We need to herald, “prosperity with a purpose...!â€

Thanks for your article, Matt. I believe you are “right on the money...!â€

Mark
 

Mark...Well said!Matt came across as critical and it seemed that he was throwing "the baby out with the bathwater." If Matt and Mark were saying the same thing, it sure didn't come across to me. Their attitude about it seemed to be completely opposite.
 

I disagree with the "anonymous" poster above.

I thought Matt's tone was irenic, but challenging. And it seems to me that constructive challeging is appropriate in the Body of Christ.

It is of note that some of the high-profile ministers in the Faith Movement matter-of-factly report that they do not respond to their critics. Yet, is there a more sarcastic pulpiteer than Kenneth Copeland? Surely all have heard Copeland mock his critics in a whiney voice, "Well, Brother Copeland, I just think I am supposed to have a bad back." The sarcasm is criticism of the critics, and his audience enjoys their champion putting the critics in their place. So, WOF folks, let's not get carried away with charges of division and hyper-critcism.

Simply put, Ministry Today is not a house organ for any ministry or any movement. If you want only the positive spin on Copeland, Capps, Hagin, et al, you probably already know where that can be had. This is Christian journalism: a place where news can be reported (without spin), the body can be educated further, and opinions can respectfully and constructively be aired.

Hopefully, it all ends with iron sharpening iron (Proverbs 27:17).

Does anyone remember when James Robison met with Benny Hinn and suggested Benny drop the theatrical practice of throwing his coat on people? Graciously, Benny listened and stopped the practice (however, it did leave me wondering how people who had fallen when the coat hit them, were then to explain their experience. Perhaps Hinn could have gone a step further and explained to his followers were he had gone wrong, so he AND HIS FOLLOWERS would know how to avoid such pitfalls in the future).

Finally, before Matt is irrecoverably painted as anti-WOF, it should be remembered that he did a cover story on Fred Price last year. So positive was the tenor of the story, that friends wondered if he had not written a 'puff' piece on Price at the behest of his employer (Stephen Strang).

So, "anonymous", no more hand-wringing about Matt. He loves the WOF people, but just wants to encourage adjustments to be made. And if Copeland, et al, can give out it, they sure should be able to take it.
 

This is "anonymous" don't want to take the time to do the login thing. After writing the differences I saw in the way Matt and Mark expressed themselves I looked up some personal information on them. Matt is a reporter, not a minister. Mark is a minister. So for me, I was able to "hear" Mark better (not that all ministers would necessarily fall into that catagory). I agreed with Mark, he came across as truthful and respectful, acknowledging both the good and the bad. Matt didn't in this piece. If I knew nothing good of the WOF people and read this piece my opinion would automatically be negative. Mark on the other hand presented it in a very pastoral way...my pastor does the same. I acknowlege the truth, see the humanity involved, rejoice in the good done, and am sure to stay balanced for myself. I guess we all need a good pastor! I didn't see the piece Matt did on Fred Price. Thank you for letting me know.
 

Jon..from "anonymous". You said it well too. I'm a through and through WOF'er (ha ha), but a balanced one. I agree with every word that you wrote. All of us should listen to constructive criticism. I will lighten up on Matt. Sorry Matt. Thanks.
 

What a great discussion! Don't forget, I credit the W/F movement with reminding us of several important aspects the Christian life, in spite of their imbalance in other areas. However, it's good to remember (as a few of you have astutely noted), the W/F movement is frequently misrepresented by its most visible proponents. I realize that there are many in the grassroots of the W/F community who are embarrassed by this and are working for reform and balance in the movement. If you're one of these, I would love to hear from you.
 

So would I! I'm the 60 year old that posted earlier. It would be wonderful to hear about the Faith movement getting back on track! because THAT Word was from God. The Bible wants us "to prosper and be in health, even as our soul prospers," right? And Paul said, "he had learned to be content in whatever state he was in," right? Well, I wonder just how these rich, over-the-top people, in Authority would become if they lost all their money, OR decided to give it all away for the the proclaimation of the Gospel going into all the world? These are only quesions, but I wonder what they'd preach about then? And yes, there were 12 Tribes of Israel, but were they ALL doing something different? (as one wrote, etc.) I'm only a woman that lives near Tacoma, WA., and what do I know, anyway? However, the teaching of Kenneth Hagin (who taught everything!) blessed my mother, and myself, in a great way! I will be forever grateful for him, and his teaching that was inspired from the throne of God. (in my opinion) He stayed true to God, and hopefully, we all can too! Also, in my opinion, some of these people may be rich, but appear rather lean in soul. However, I'm not their judge, and this is only my "take" on the situation. and, I have also been in Churchs where 5 offerings have been taken, and I felt manipulated, as well, as the others did.
 

You have got to be kidding me...5 offerings taken in church. Well, our pastor would do that..but it would be for 5 different missionaries! ha ha! Smith Wigglesworth, as he talked about in his book, encouraged people to give the money they would have used to buy a new suit of clothes to give to a missionary! That is the WOF teaching that I know. I guess I've not been around to some of these places talked about. Thankfully.
 

Ok, One last comment. Why is it when someone points out errors or the potential in Christian circles, not just Word of Faith, that people want to blame the media? When did Christians become perfect? We make mistakes. Prosperity the way it is being taught at some of the Churches I ATTENDED is wrong, unbiblical, etc. Why should it not be called out?
Would you rather people go or stay in deception instead of cutting it off before then.
I went through a long process before making the decision not to attend churches that preach this. It was not out of anger or rebellion, but I felt if I could not or would not support a teaching then I should not pretend that I did. I will not deceive myself or be a fake to fit in.
Sure, I like some of the teaching, and sometimes it can take ahold of you and have you giving all your money, time, etc, but God is a God of balance. Jesus never told anyone to give all they had or they would be out of his will except the one rich man who loved it.
I believe that some of the people are well meaning, but the road to you know where is paved with good intentions. Sure, we want people to have money, home, cars, etc, but when is it enough? Exactly how much money would be enough with some of the teachings. Lets not even discuss how some make people who are ill feel like if they "planted a seed" then God would heal their disease. How much would a cure for cancer cost versus a cold? I have heard all of this, and am not making statements on people I have never heard or read. I have been in their meetings and churches and money is the God not Jesus. Sure, some will do a little altar call, but do a call for a blessing on your finances and pledge at least $100 and the crowd is huge.
We are not to follow people blindly. For a long time I did, and I bought a lot of error. When I did get into a balanced church, it was amazing how my relationship with God changed. I did not feel like I had to own a Bentley or live in a huge house. Heck, I am single, who needs a huge house. I even had my pastor make fun of me for riding a bike, which was great exercise and easier since everywhere I went was close to my home. He considered it a curse. No, the junker of a car I eventually bought was the curse.
Stay away from this teaching. Or at least use wisdom and balance. Do not get head over heels or you will come crashing and it is not a soft landing.
 

Delores I agree with your post. A pastor who would make fun of a person's transportaion, putting it down is out of line and surely not walking in love.

I'd like to comment on this statement you made:

Delores Williams said...
Ok, One last comment. Why is it when someone points out errors or the potential in Christian circles, not just Word of Faith, that people want to blame the media?

Whose resposibility is it to "point out error" or bring correction to ministers? Certainly not the media!!! It would be someone else in the ministry. And not a "ministry reporter" either. They are certainly not the same, but perhaps they think they are and that would be the problem.

The apostle Paul gave correction to churches and the apostle John (in the book of Revelation) gave correction to the church. These were not some self appointed apostles who had given themselves the title, these were men who were apostles called of God as evidenced by the work they did and the lives they lived.

Some years ago a prominent WOF minister (name withheld) had a meeting with other WOF ministers to discuss the errors going on in the prosperity message. After that meeting some broke fellowship with the minister and continued what they were doing. There were some who heard the Biblical correction, listened and changed.

THIS is the only way that REAL change will happen with those who minister. Respectfully, if you think they will read articles and that will do it...it won't. It is like a Plummer telling a Doctor about his business. ha ha.

Warning people of danger through the media to have to most good....needs to be the way that God exampled media to us...the Word of God. It was inspired and God breathed. Sadly few in the Christian media are able to do this. They are not seasoned ministers full of the Word who can bring the scriptural correction needed. So, in my opinion, it adds confusion, strife, and conflict.

Name Withheld
 

I agree with the poster above. There are balanced Biblical WOF churches and pastors who preach the Word of God. I think after reading the posts I gues my own Charismatic Baptist church fits the bill. Prosperity is not being in lack and having enough to help others. I think healing, reasonable prosperity and all the other promises are ours. The key is a life sold out to Christ.
 

I have been a part of the charismatic community for over 30 years. I have seen great leaders fall away and rise again. I have seen others, just fall away. I have noticed a few things. When a person identifies another person by their status (He's rich, owns a Mercedes...) they lower the person's identity to basically their wealth quotient. I miss hearing people identified as, "He is a man of prayer," "He is true student of the Word." It is sad that we now identify a person's character by wealth, not integrity or good works. I know many wealthy people. Some of them have a lot of money and material possessions. Others are walking by faith for "daily bread." I respect them all because servants don't choose where or how to serve, they just serve without question. As the Body of Christ, charismatic, I'm longing for the day when we are known for good works and servant hood instead of our lack of moral values and integrity. A wise missionary once told me he would be a success if the only time his name was ever in the newspaper was in an obituary that simply said, "He served His Lord faithfully." I agree, AMEN!
 

Wow! Now THAT just about sums up what everyone said about the F/M! How true! Because "it rains on the just and the unjust," and wealth can come......and it can go, as well. It should never be the standard to measure another by, or his Godly character.
 

There are some who are living more prosperous lives who have less materially than those who have more material possessions.

Prosperity is freedom, joy, peace, the means to obey what God tells you to do...

There is a story in a book of Smith Wigglesworths where he was walking with a millionaire friend. Smith had a great need, but never voiced the need to the friend. As he put it, my trust was in God alone. Smith was singing and joyful as they walked...the millionaire friend said to him, oh, how I wish I had what you had! Smith's great need was met by God though another means.

Who was prosperous there? Why, the man who lived his life in fellowship with God, in joy, knowing God would met the need...and it was!

This is how Kenneth Hagin taught me faith at his Bible School.
 

Matt, I do applaud your letter. The "Word of Faith" movement, as it is called, has been maligned by not a few. Years ago, E.W. Kenyon's teachings were attacked by the cult/heresy hunters for alleged cultic leanings. These men failed to see the doctrinal soundness of identification, redemption, nature of the new birth, and the nature of man. Unfortunately, their ad homenin attacks caused many to stray from these basic doctrines.

Many of the current "prosperity" preachers have called Kenneth Hagin their spiritual father, but many of their teachings are not true to either his teachings or scripture. Unfortunately, many have failed to actually read Hagin's teachings and align him in with the bunch. I was fortunate to sit under Hagin for several years at Rhema and still, to this day, have not sat under a more balanced minister.

In the 1920's, Charles Price, a healing evangelist who was an educated Oxford lawyer, complained that many had turned Biblical faith into metaphysics. The second generation of prominent Word preachers (in general) have gone beyond the Word and done this.

The basic Word doctrines that I refer to above were not dreamed up with Mr. Kenyon. Irenaeus, in the 2nd century, coined the term "recapitulation" which includes much of the Word of Faith doctrine. In recent New Testament scholarship, with authors like Ian Wallis, Richard Hays, and even N.T. Wright, we are seeing an emerging orthodoxy that is very much in line with Kenyon's and Hagin's basic teachings.

As a former Rhema grad, ORU grad, and practicing lawyer, it is thrilling to see the ends of the prosperity extremes and more of a return to the real faith.
 

Those interested in pursuing this topic further may want to read Craig Blomberg's book, "Neither Poverty Nor Riches: A Biblical Theology of Possessions." (InterVarsity Press) Blomberg is a professor of New Testament at Denver Seminary.
 

I think debate is healthy. I think Matt's post was thoughtful, tho' possibly a hint of sarcasm. I believe both points of view are valid. I don't think it's anymore a badge of honour in Christ to have a body of paupers, than it is to have a body that's wealthy. I think it's more helpful to examine your underlying motivations. I don't think it's God's theology to preach a Christian version of Napoleon Hill's "Think and Grow Rich" to tap into the uncrucified fleshly desires for wealth for wealth's sake. I do believe it's just as wrong in His theology to be poor for poverty's sake - if you desire that as your badge of spirituality, join a monastic order.I do believe the bible teaches sowing and reaping, seedtime and harvest (which happen at different points in time).I believe that prosperity in the individual is for supporting the ministry - primarily of evangelism to the lost. He did say that the end will come once the "GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM" has been preached to all nations and persons. Submission of one's motives for God's refining are the key I believe to being content in whatever situation one is in at any given time like Paul.
 

I think that the majority of Prosperity faith healers are false teachers. Perhaps the only evangelist who is the real thing more than any other internet evangelist is the internet media celebrity, Rev. Dr. Chris Mentillo. Doc has always given back to those less fortunate people who have nothing and whom are poor.

Doc is very blessed himself and has even given away money and Rolex watches, and even cars to people who sow into his ministry. Unlike many prosperity Ministers who just takes and keep taking. Dr. Chris Mentillo gives first. He had 4 mansions, 3 islands, 12 Porsche’s, 8 Rolex watches. and gives them away to the poor. He is amazing guy. He really is a great guy. I love him so much. God bless you Mentillo.

Even after he has done these things people try to take advantage of him. I think people just get very greedy and try to take advantage of him. This breaks my heart. I think he had a nervous breakdown recently this year. At the end of last year up until now. He had something like an astronomical 7 lawsuits that he mostly won, because these idiots were only trying to steal his money and tried to get away with it. If they were smart they should have tithed. Jerk offs you are to do that to a man of Christ. God is going to punish these people. Just watch.

He is perhaps the only true man of God who takes action on what he says he is going to do
for his Internet members. And his members range from some of the most respected renown Christians and celebrities, politicians, etc in the world. Even the poor who come to him with nothing get blessed through his organization. Like rev Ike in the 70's and 80'. Dr. Chris Mentillo is the up and coming Evangelist of the new century. Like Rev Ike. Dr. Chris Mentillo is based out of Boston and New York. He even donates to the police and politicians thousands. Rev. Dr. Mentillo believes in the bible where it says to give money to the poor. In addition Dr. Chris Mentillo also believes in not being poor himself so that he too can bless those less fortunate. look at all these ministers-celebrities today. Most of them just take your money. This is why Dr. Chris Mentillo is so different because he really does have the gift to bless those with no money and to bless individuals who are sick. 5*'s for the Doc. Sorry but he is not a Pimp but a true real man of God.
http://www.ChrisMentillo.com
 

Your piece had quite the sarcastic college-kid ring to it. Because you just know that you are right, you have no problem with the nose-in-the-air and haughty tone with which you write. I have never seen "straw-men" arguments made so freely as I have seen them made by the non-charismatic (often anti-tithing) sect of western organized religion. You have claimed that this theology "does not work" in poor countries, yet it is flourishing there. Do your research and say something beyond what tickles the ears of your own little choir. Those opposed to civil rights in the 60's sounded just like you, and they got the crowd going, but look what happened and look how God sovereignly raised up and put down those on the right and wrong side of the issue. Often people reject prosperity teaching because they have lived a self-based kind of christianity that does not ask the question: "how can I love my neighbor" and refuses to believe anything other than what they learned in their denominational sunday school class (like "our christian hearts are decietfully wicked") when they were a child.
Loose the arrogance, quit shooting the messengers of 30 years ago, grow up and shut up.
 

one last note: I just posted the above comment. I noticed that the publisher of the magazine for which you wrote your attack article, Steven Strang, ascribes to very much, if not all, of the charismatic-prosperity message. So be careful--I wouldn't want you to lose your "ministry" and your paycheck.
 

Let's pray along these lines. It matters what comes out of all of this, in the ministries affected and associated and in the world that is watching.
2Ch 6:23 Then hear thou from heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, by requiting the wicked, by recompensing his way upon his own head; and by justifying the righteous, by giving him according to his righteousness.
 

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