Analysts I'm hearing are saying the bailout won't make any difference
1000
THANK YOU! 
whistle
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 07:29 PM
Original message
Analysts I'm hearing are saying the bailout won't make any difference
...and that Wall Street is going to drop another 10%. There are more days like today that will follow.
So, why doesn't Congress freeze the $700 billion bailout, fire Paulson now and devise a plan which will get the economy back on track?
Otherwise, this bailout is just good money going in after bad.
Replies to this thread
![[image]](http://mowser.com/img?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2Fdiscuss%2Fimages%2Fmesg_level.gif)
so nice findguru Oct-07-08 10:22 AM #53
Tansy_Gold
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. analysts here on DU have been saying that for months
TG
whistle
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. It's only been called a bailout for several weeks, but I agree the meltdown
...possibility has been seen by some for a long time
dmordue
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. Because analysts are all over the place and many think it will be worse w/o intervention
The choice isn't between good and bad but bad, really bad, catastrophic and complete melt down and massive unemployment
truedelphi
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. NO you are really removed from the reality on this 
Edited on Mon Oct-06-08 07:44 PM by truedelphi
ALthugh the media has been trumpeting how this is all the fault of the stinking low wage earners who insisted that they be offered sub prime mortgage, last night's 60 Minutes detailed a few of the underreported TRUTHS about this mess.
The problem is not at all the sub prime mortgages.
There were not enough marginally incomed folks buying houses to endanger our entire economy. Set it back 10 to 15 % sure, but not rip it apart by its gizzards.
What is undermining our economy are these damn "Credit Default Swaps" And those instruments were the insurance policies that were SOLD to the investors that bought up the SIV's (An SIV was a collection of huge bundles of many of the sub prime mortgages. Some of these bundles were sold over 35 times - sort of like if you Had twenty bucks, but you loaned it to yourself so now you have forty, so now you loan it to yourself and now have eighty, etc)
Now the Swaps were actually insurance so that IN THEORY no one would ever lose anything should any single bundle of sub prime mortgages default.
And as insurance they should have been regulated. Had they been regulated - they would have probably been regulated out of existence. But they weren't insurance - nudge nudge - they were SWAPS -- get it!! And as SWAPS - not a single one of the many regulators appointed to oversee insurance policies (and their sales) ever bothered to intervene and see that this mess was stopped before it brought the country down.
The whole mess stinks to high heaven. When you start to examine this stinking mess, as Michael Collins has been doing in his articles from Scoop that he generously re-posts here, you realize that there ae some 500 TRILLION dollars in assets taht are about to be announced as having been wiped away in the "derivative" market trades that are bottoming out as we type. (This 500 TRILLION dollars represents more worth than the global economy possesses - America's economy is only 13 Trillion a year in a good year) But since OUR GOVERNMENT let the insurance policies be called SWAPS - well that is something that indicates to me that We the People can no longer allow the government to oversee anything!!
If you and me go to "Humboldt County" er I mean, "Non Tokers County" to buy some er, let's call it OREGANO, do you think we would be left without regulation? Especially if we drove home in a stolen car at speeds in excess of 115 mph??
As far as I can tell the whole thing that has gone on in Wall Street for the last three to five years - it is nothing more than a rackets operation.
And then a bigger rackets operation was the House and Senate voting to take the money away from the middle incomed person through taxation and help the recovery of the very people who did this crap. And the people who perpetrated this on us are the same people who will be handling the BailoOut monies!! How is this any different than giving the Mafiosa half your money fromyour cash register to ensure your pizza parlor windows won't be kicked in? Except that the Mafiosa at least has the decency to NOT KNOCK in your windows if they are paid. The people who get the BailOut funds will NOT BE USING it to help us!!
And last week, right before this event were we not being told by the same experts that brought us this mess that the only way for our economy to avoid tanking was for this noxious Bailout Bill.
The actions of our House and Senate in approving this Bailout bill is nothing less than the theft of our Social Security. And just as importantly -- the Wholesale theft of our economy out from under us But guess what - our economy just tanked!! Even though we gave the country away!
tavalon
(1000+ posts)
Tue Oct-07-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
45. You're not supposed to talk about that!
Besides, that's just too complicated for widdle ol' Murkins.
OwnedByFerrets
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. If they were gonna use good sense, it wouldnt have
been passed in the first place. Dont hold your breath that our so-called leaders will reverse a bad decision NOW.
sandnsea
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. 10% isn't 50%
Edited on Mon Oct-06-08 07:34 PM by sandnsea
No massive bank failures yet, I mean complete and total with no back-up. The $250,000 FDIC calmed people's fears there. Nobody ever said this was all that needed to be done.
Juniperx
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Have you seen the bank risk list?
Could be as many as 100 failures between now and this time next year.
sandnsea
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. That's what this money is to try and prevent
Yes. I've posted that list many times. That's why we need to get this debt off their books and let them start lending again.
Juniperx
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. How do you feel about bailout money going to foreign banks? eom
whistle
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. That is just plain wrong, we have a real rat hole with that policy!
sandnsea
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. We created the mess
Didn't we? Or at least our CEO's did. I would have to see how that works out before I made a judgment on it. Don't get me wrong, I hate this, the whole thing stinks to high heaven. I blame the people who concocted these mortgages in the first place. If I could see they were idiotic, and I didn't even graduate from college, I don't believe these financial titans couldn't see it. I still think the goal is to kill the FHA altogether and make real serfs of all of us. That's why I'm for this, to try to keep them from doing that. But I still think there's a danger of it, especially if we keep letting them blame poor people and minorities instead of the greedy fucks at the top.
Juniperx
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. "If I could see they were idiotic"
Yep. That's the bottom line for me... If I knew it, by GAWD they all knew it!
The more I see of the actual numbers, the more I feel this bailout isn't going to scratch the surface. The bundled MBS were sold over and over again... and no one even called "churning"... but no one could have anticipated, I'm sure. 
The US will own all property... or China and Saudi Arabia will. The FHA may stay, but become our landlord.
whistle
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. $700 billion can't do it and neither would $750 trillion, there has been a huge fraud perpetrated
...and the guilty are vanishing like ghosts
sandnsea
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. I know, it's a horrible mess
But if the $250 billion doesn't make a dent, then we can rise up and stop the rest of it, or demand it come to the people to help us all through this nightmare. After all, it is "only" less than half the defense budget.
whistle
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Who is "we"? Not I, I did not create this. But I know some people who did
...local developers, politicians, bankers, real estate appraisers, attorneys, mortgage brokers, investers, etc. who really should be the ones held accountable. They have long walked away with the cash leaving others holding the debt.
anigbrowl (1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. Analysts may be missing that bailout is not directed at the Dow
The Dow alone does not tell you whether the plan is working or not, and any analyst who was expecting stock maraket volatility to disappear after passing this bailout is not thinking too far. I support this bailout, but unfortunately even if it works like a charm (with hindsight), we're still going to have a very unsettled month on the stock market.
The GOAL of the bailout is to get the credit markets moving again, and that's probably going to take several weeks, minimum.
whistle
(1000+ posts)
Mon Oct-06-08 07:53 PM
Re