Daily Kos

GOP Raises Oil Prices To Defend Talking Point

Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:10:25 PM PDT

Having created their "drill more" catchphrase, dictating that the only solution is to continue beating our heads against the same wall that's already given us an economic and national security concussion, Republicans used a technical maneuver to defeat the release of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve.  Democrats had a plan to release 10% of the reserve's light sweet crude over a six month period, helping moderate prices on the market.  Republicans moved quickly to protect their talking point, and got what they wanted -- higher prices.

Oil prices reversed course and moved higher Thursday in U.S. trading after a move in Congress to tap into the U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve was defeated. ... At a press conference before the vote, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-CA, pointed out that previous releases from the oil reserve had knocked down prices, sometimes significantly: 33 percent in 1991, 19 percent in 2000 and nine percent in 2005.

Is releasing oil from the strategic reserve a long term solution?  No, but unlike anything the Republicans have suggested, it actually would help relieve prices at the pump today and give the market a chance to moderate.  And there's a record amount of oil in the SPR, so a minor adjustment in the reserve's composition (the plan required that this oil be replaced by heavier crude) would represent no problem for US security.

Of course, selling that 10% would both reduce ExxonMobil's bottom line and damage the GOP talking point.  And their leverage was already being eroded by the damage they've done to the economy, which was putting demand in doubt.  That had to be stopped!

Republican plan from now until November?  Continue talking about drilling that won't help prices so they can avoid talking about anything that will.  Oil prices were edging down on more economic worries on Friday.  That has to have them worried.

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Tags: Oil, Republicans, Election 2008 (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

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McCain: For experience before he was against it!

by bbrown8370 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:19:19 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 If I provide you with Government that Operates (9+ / 0-)

effectively, You'll quit falling for my Scare Tactics and vote for the Democrats.

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by ROGNM on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:24:54 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Disgusting (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Grand Moff Texan, CCSDem

Brilliantly blessed are those who walk with courage through the depths of the own fear, for they will Love from the bottom of their heart.

by Craig Hickman on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:31:35 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 GMT (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Grand Moff Texan, VA Breeze

did you see my pictures?
DISTURBING: Domestic Drilling Pollution Pictures

If they aren't a deterrent to Domestic Drilling then they ain't one.

 The Republicans love Saudi Arabia (4+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
groggy, CCSDem, jds1978, luckylizard

That's the only excuse for their actions. They hate our freedoms and love Saudi Arabia.

 Nah, they just love money (4+ / 0-)

They own the oil companies that are profitting off of all of this. They don't care that they're getting it from people less fortunate than them.

McCain: For experience before he was against it!

by bbrown8370 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:21:56 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Bush/Cheny love Saudis, Rethugs love BIG OIL..and (0+ / 0-)

...they hate Americans who don't have $1 million or more.

Can someone tell me why the House can't act on this?  They have a fucking majority, no?  Where's the roll call vote?  

Headz must roll.

PATRIOT I+II, MCA, TORTURE, FISA CAPITULATION, NOW THE BUSH TROJAN HORSE. YOUR COUNTRY IS SLOWLY BEING DISMANTLED. WHAT R U GONNA DO ABOUT IT?

by maxschell on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:51:22 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Huh 1 milliion dollars. (0+ / 0-)

Does that point applies to just the Republicans or everyone...

Hmmm....

 $1M? (0+ / 0-)

GOP policy is intended to benefit the Richistani at everyone else's expense... if you've got $500M in assets or more, Bush and "Insane" McCain are your friends.

To GOP policymakers, a mere millionaire is just another target for government-assisted upward transfer of wealth.

Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

by alizard on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 08:11:38 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Both parties are dead wrong on "Pain at the pump" (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
nanobubble

"Let's drill more here"
For what oil?  Where? We've hardly got any, it's really expensive, slow to develop, and the cost of a single oil spill on the US coastline would outweigh the entire effort.  We wouldn't even see a measurable bump in our production for at least a decade, regardless.  More than setting back renewable energy via competition, it directly sucks money out of budgets that would be going towards renewable energy.
"Let's attack speculators / nationalize the market / cap the price"
Speculators are how we ensure that oil gets where it needs to go at a relatively constant price.  The market prices in the chances of this week's tankers being thrown off by a freak storm (rewarding those who handily stored a week's supply of oil), or other various and sundry occurrences.  Eliminating arbitrage and enforcing price controls are the only means available to us to guarantee outright shortages at your local gas station.  Furthermore, oil is a global market.  You really think the hedge funds aren't going to simply dial London and trade oil there?  Or that if the US decides to put conditions on its vast imports ("Sell me your heroin, but I want it under $3/g this time, Or Else"), the rest of the world won't simply refuse to sell it to us?
"Let's tap the SPR"
That would be an excellent idea, in a temporary emergency local price spike.  Which this isn't.  It's global, it's sustained, and it's not going anywhere.  We are at the peak of world oil production - the 'easiest half' to harvest is already harvested, and we're going to throw ever-escalating amounts of effort to try and get the rest out of the ground, amidst rapidly mounting price increases.  $4/gallon has been just enough to flatten growth in our consumption to match flat production - imagine what the price will do as production drops, year after year.

The goal of any progressive should be figuring out how to preserve the standard of living of the working and middle class in the face of high gas prices which force them to change their behavior - for oil usage that is more efficient without being a major drop in quality of life.

 And you do not??? (0+ / 0-)

Come on, are you driving a car? if so, aren't you using the same Saudi oil as the Republics?

But if you do not drive a car, then more power to your feet..

But if you are? how do you know what oil are you using?? How do you know where your gas is being produced from? US Crude, or Saudi mud..

Something to think about.. At least before you say the Republicans love Saudi Arabia.. so when you using your car or other gas running device. than think.. Your gas is saudi oil.. so maybe you do love them as well...  {8^)

 I'm not voting to keep the price of oil high (0+ / 0-)

which benefits the world's main exporter - Saudi Arabia.

Now am I?

 Cool... (0+ / 0-)

I expect many Americans will be voting this year..
I welcome this years elections.. the more the better for America's future.. Who ever wins will not get off so easy as the past 8 years..

It's a matter of survival now... I tired of the two party wasteland...

But I truely believe the next Jok ker better make sure he or she, (You never know...) gets the Consitution and the Bill or Rights tatooed in their braincells.

{8^)

 

 easy (0+ / 0-)

WARNING: THIS COMMENT MAY OR MAY NOT CONTAIN SARCASM.

by the disinfector on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 06:21:45 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Sounds to me like... (20+ / 0-)

They'd rather win an election than ease the economic suffering of the average American.

 Which, hopefully, will backfire. (4+ / 0-)

Mightily.

An agnostic not because I don't know if there's a God, but because I don't care.

by filmgeek83 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:13:38 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Yea, when MSM gets a hold of this (5+ / 0-)

it will really hit the fan! /snark

Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers

by groggy on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:22:55 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Can Dems repeat this phrase ad-nauseum please?!? (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
jds1978

 Actually, (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Sparhawk, jds1978

keeping the oil in the SPR isn't actually that bad of a political move NOR that bad of a rhetorical move. Take a look at commodity prices today and you'll see that oil has edged downward a couple bucks once again. Releasing a large amount of oil into the market all at once will not encourage further decreases in pump price over time, because people won't be as willing to conserve their gas consumption.

The market corrects itself by raising prices on scarce commodities. If the price remains high for long enough, people will start to demand less of the commodity and the price will fall - and in large part, that's why the price of a barrel of oil has fallen over the last couple weeks. Global demand is decreasing on account of the steep increase in price. That's real 'market moderation.'

That's why the Republican's plan to increase drilling is a more long-term solution to the problem which provides for market stability in the short term. Chances are, people will get more upset if gas prices dip by a dollar tomorrow only to rise by two dollars next week. That's what releasing oil from the SPR would have done. . . .caused an artificial increase in the amount of oil available in the market which would stop after a period of time. Cue the speculation (which happens in order to control the instability in the market) - releasing oil from the SPR would be a political blunder for anyone who undertakes to act upon it.

Incidentally, I don't think we should be putting more oil INTO the SPR - but releasing it would simply inflate the market availability of oil in the short term without enabling any sort of long term correction. Unless Pelosi, Reid and Co. really believe that sustainable energy is going to make a breakthrough in the next 6 months (and I'm not willing to take that bet). . . .

 The big reason is to cut the legs under the (0+ / 0-)

speculators.  Release even the amount they are talking about and the price will tank.

 Short term, maybe (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Sparhawk

but you have to supplement it with a more long term solution. All you're doing in this case is delaying the inevitable - and to be quite honest, there is no reason to believe that releasing more oil will actually cause the cost to go down.

Look, the market is correcting itself now by driving down demand with higher prices. As demand dries up, prices will fall as well, until a balance is met.

 In a speculative environment, (0+ / 0-)

even a little change in the wind can cause the card house to topple.
Having said that, over 3 buck a gallon is here to stay. I bought my first Prius in 04, sold it for more than I paid for it a month ago and have a new one now.  It wasn't hard to see this coming.

 Why the Strategic Oil Reserve exists (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
nanobubble

The Second World War was probably the reason for the reserve.  It was very clear that one of the major reasons the Germans lost was the lack of petroleum product.  So the reserve was created.

It is there to provide a safety net for the military.  Not to manipulate gasoline prices.  Clinton used it, others probably have also.  But, that is a misuse of the resource.

Think of it:  Humvees, planes, tanks, supply trucks, most ships, helicopters, all need petro products to function.  We are very vulnerable if our fuel is scarce.

So, the question becomes, are we willing to sacrifice our security for a reduction in gas prices, or are we preferring a reduction in gas prices so we can drive more?

I realize that was a straw man question, but that is pretty much what we are faced with.  As someone who worked on classified projects for the military in the '60s, I would hope, and expect, that there is a consecrated effort on the part of the military establishment to wean ourselves from petroleum.  If they are as smart as they claim, they are close to a solution.

"If nominated, I will not run; if elected, I will not serve; if impeached, I will not leave" -Anon

by Graebeard on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:21:00 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 I'm guessing that solar-powered tanks (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
nanobubble

are pretty far in the future yet.

Of course, the Air Force WAS nutty enough to try to build a nuclear-powered airplane . . . . .

Editor, Red and Black Publishers http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

by Lenny Flank on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 08:37:55 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Yes and some think McCain's poll numbers (0+ / 0-)

improving in key battleground states is because he talks about more drilling.

 Nice (0+ / 0-)

I think I'll make a commercial that says this. I'm not really up too much on this but do you think this will still be getting discussed in a month? Two months?

 And if you catch Bin Laden... (7+ / 0-)

you can't talk about catching bin Laden anymore.

An agnostic not because I don't know if there's a God, but because I don't care.

by filmgeek83 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:13:13 PM PDT

 There's Obama's ready made answer... (16+ / 0-)

...to any McCain whining about not drilling.

"Drilling won't help a damn thing now and will only feed our oil addiction, we should release the reserves, you wrinkled jackass.  That way the prices can drop and help people right now while long-term solutions are being developed.  Jesus!  You're such fucking asshole."

Though he probably should phrase it differently.

"Raybin is not a lying maniac. I've found this person to be an extremely clever and devious lying conartist, but never a maniac."--RElland on Daily Kos

by Raybin on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:13:14 PM PDT

 I like the way (8+ / 0-)

you phrased it!

In an insane society, the sane man would appear insane

by TampaCPA on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:15:27 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Even easier Gas Tax Holiday (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Raybin, TomP

why you didn't introduce legislation if it wasn't a gimmick?

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

by IamTheJudge on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:17:59 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Ya think? (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Raybin, SecondComing, TomP

From this point on, any time any Republican whines about oil, s/he should be slapped down HARD with this.  That oil was paid for by every one of us and we'll be paying for it again at the pump.  It's ours and we need it, not just for our cars but to send a signal that we aren't going to just sit around a wait for Jesus.  Then we need to get on the stick and do something that will really help in the long run.  What a bunch of fools!

-7.62, -7.28 "We told the truth. We obeyed the law. We kept the peace." - Walter Mondale

by luckylizard on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:20:21 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 I'll happily contribute... (6+ / 0-)

To the first 527 to use this script in a TV ad, word for word.

 Not a 527 but what script? (0+ / 0-)

I just posted (above) about doing a commercial for this topic.

I just needs more details and to make sure the issue would still be relevant in two weeks, a month or two months.

I know in my community, gas prices is all people are talking about.

Seriously, if you can tell me what/how it should flow, I can make it.

 I think mikedallas23 (0+ / 0-)

means this script. I agree... but it won't go on the air anywhere unless everything after the word 'developed' is cut.

Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

by alizard on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 08:16:11 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Re (0+ / 0-)

That way the prices can drop and help people right now while long-term solutions are being developed.

No one will develop long-term solutions while energy is cheap. It simply won't happen. (See the presidency of Clinton, Bill for evidence).

 nobody will develop long-term solutions? (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
nanobubble

better tell the VCs discussed here that.

Not to say that private sector VC is adequate for the purpose, or necessarily directed properly... and another important question is what happens with these solutions once they are developed.

It isn't enough to come up with the answers, serious public committment (say, $300-500B/year) will be required if we actually intend to solve enough of the problem to keep America viable as a going concern a decade or two from now.

Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

by alizard on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 08:21:13 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 See America? Republicans *do* care... (5+ / 0-)

...about their own self-serving spin.

"If you don't like your job, you don't strike. You just go in every day, and do it really half-assed. That's the American way."- Homer Simpson.

by J R Hand on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:14:21 PM PDT

 Good move (0+ / 0-)

We can now check off the SPR for any relief. Got my eye on those kanuckistanis. They got oil coming out of the gazoo!!

 they don't want to release strategic reserves (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
wishingwell

because it would mean less oil after they invade iran.

with fear of being tin foil hatted, they also want to crash the economy to bring about the amero.

--plays well with otters

by jeepndesert on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:15:18 PM PDT

 Sounds like blackmail to me (n/t) (0+ / 0-)

But don't forget that most men without property would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich, than face the reality of being poor. (1776)

by banjolele on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:15:21 PM PDT

 Sherman's March to the Sea ... (4+ / 0-)

Was more deftly handled than how Republicans go about the art of governing.

The Republican brand: "Consequences, schmonsequences, as long as I'm rich"

by D in Northern Virginia on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:16:22 PM PDT

 huge mistake, opening the reserve (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
dirtroad

look, it would have all the effect of more drilling, and burning more oil. Force the CO2/Global Warming issue now.

Pandering, is what it is

 I agree (4+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Sparhawk, nanobubble, jck, teklanika

Back in the 70's, the "hippie tree-hugging environmental whackos" told everyone that global oil production would begin to run out in 30-40 years.  Everyone laughed at them.

Nobody's laughing now.

The era of cheap oil is over.  It's time we understand that.  Oil prices will NEVER EVER go down to what they were.  Ever.  No matter what we do.  Production has peaked, the oil is almost gone, and it takes 250 million years to make more of it. We can drill everywhere on the entire goddamn planet, and it won't help us -- there simply ain't that much oil left.

It's long past the time when the American public should realize that.

Either we adapt, quickly, to a post-oil economy, or we go under.

The choice really is that stark.

Editor, Red and Black Publishers http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

by Lenny Flank on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:51:10 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Yup (0+ / 0-)

Read what Lenny said above and stop worrying about "speculators". If they are responsible for driving up prices, they are doing you a favor.

 They're betting that prices will continue up. (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Sparhawk

That's a pretty safe bet. They might be driving the current increase faster, but the trend will stay up until we wean ourselves off the big greasy tit.

 Another agree (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
PopeFlick, nanobubble

The SPR (created by Jimmy Carter, interesting how the goplets forget to mention that) is a hedge against major disruptions in the oil supply. It's not there to moderate price bumps.

Conservation would open up supply and move prices much faster than draining the entire SPR. If Bush-league was interested in lowering prices, they'd be flooding the radio waves conservation-minded PSAs.

Hatred is murder (1 John 3:15)
Read FAR Future, a serial peak-oil novel, at my blog.

by dirtroad on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:58:56 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Will Democrats now finally pull a republican... (4+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
mikedallas23, Joe B, wishingwell, Wharton

by repeating ad-nauseum that Republicans voted to increase gas prices?

That would make a lot of hay.

 Distraction time (0+ / 0-)

Be prepared for them to throw lots of crap on the road to November.  It's our job to maneuver around it and keep going forward rather than saying "Look at how shiny it is."

"Polls are like crack, political activists know they're bad for them but they read them anyways."-Unknown

by skywaker9 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:17:49 PM PDT

 Actually this is a good move... (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
d to the f, jds1978

...sure the price sucks. But if there's ever been a clearer need for the SPR it is now with everything  threatening to go out of control.

I'm fine with my extra dollar fifty a week being spent. Really, how much price relief would it provide? .15 cents/gallon? If that?

Not having enough if things got even worse would not be good at all.

Like off-shore drilling this is something (releasing oil from the SPR) that is NOT going to solve the problem.

 Unlike drilling it will actually lower gas prices (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
iBlue

though.

Conservatism = greed, hate, fear and ignorance

by Joe B on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:21:36 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 True. (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Sparhawk, jds1978

But it's not there to drop gas prices. It's there for a true blue emergency that cripples our ability to supply ourselves.

The prices suck, but you don't throw away your insurance policy if the car starts to fall apart.

 But the reserves are the highest they have ever.. (0+ / 0-)

ever been.   And the release would only be a fraction of what is there.  I agree that it is for emergencies, but it is not true that there won't be a lot left.

 They were only going to release 10% (0+ / 0-)

The GOP are full of crap.  They are protecting their oil buddies as usual.  Good move Speaker Pelosi.  Now, we got to drill the GOP on this issue.

"I was judged eventually, after three years, of using, quote, poor judgment, and I agree with that assessment." -- McCain on Keating 5

by noofsh on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:29:18 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 I didn't say... (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Sparhawk

...there wouldn't be a lot left. But at 33 days worth, we should keep what we have - the last time some was released the price dropped 3% the next day and was down 12% a month later. Katrina was the culprit.

This is the equivalent of the gas tax moratoium which many of us saw through as not necessary and potentially harmful. This is the exact same type of beast IMO.

 Exactly (0+ / 0-)

The same pandering bullshit I'd expect from Republicans but am disappointed to see from Dems.

Thanks for pointing this out.

 at least until after the election . . . (0+ / 0-)

What's the plan once the entire oil reserve is gone . . . . . . ?

The era of cheap oil is over.  Gas will never, ever, be three bucks a gallon again.  No matter what we do, no matter where we drill, even if we release the entire petroleum reserve tomorrow. The price of gas will not go down, and by next year or the year after, it will cost twice as much as it does now -- and it will keep going up.

There is no more cheap gas.  Period.

It's time we got used to that, and planned accordingly.

Editor, Red and Black Publishers http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

by Lenny Flank on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:54:30 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 I believe historically the smallest effect is 40c (0+ / 0-)

...  In original post the smallest decrease in prices was 9%. At the rate I'm paying that would be $4.50/gallon * 0.09 = $0.40/gallon.  That's a reasonable amount.

And if it is 33% lower, well that's $1.50 PER gallon.  That's a considerable chunk of change. I can buy my kids a nice toy for the price I save on filling up.

 Let them keep the SPR boosted. (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
jnhobbs

It just means that Obama will have that much more ability to help out working Americans come January.  The more excess oil he can release, the better for him - especially as the Republicans and their media buddies will be attacking him tooth and nail.

John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

by Phoenix Woman on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:18:06 PM PDT

 Wasn't McIdiotic going around saying (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
SecondComing

the great king Bush was the reason prices went down recently, because he reversed an executive order prohibiting off shore drilling?  

These guys talk out of both sides of their asses.  

And the press dutifully writes it down.  Yes, yes, whatever you say, McStupid, whatever you say.

 The SPR is insurance (8+ / 0-)

 Political fiddling over the seven hundred million barrels in the SPR (33 days supply) is as silly as the "hot gas" lawsuits. That is there for emergencies - think something happening with the Persian Gulf and then we've got no oil.

  As a simple metric if there isn't rationing put in place we ought to not be getting into the SPR.

 Agree! (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
jds1978, Stranded Wind

We're in a major inconvenience, which is well short of an emergency.

 Releasing the SOR worked in the past (0+ / 0-)

This is a common sense measure against futures speculators who have been driving the price higher.  It works.  Sadly, the GOP want high prices and instead propose bullsh*t like more drilling.

"I was judged eventually, after three years, of using, quote, poor judgment, and I agree with that assessment." -- McCain on Keating 5

by noofsh on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:25:25 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 speculation = nonsense (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Sparhawk

The whole speculation thing is a political meme with no connection to objective reality.

p://anz.theoildrum.com/node/4260

 He's blunt... (0+ / 0-)

...but he's got a point.

Speculators help the market by reducing bid/ask spreads and creating a more liquid and less volatile market environment. They are probably lowering prices for you by removing market inefficiencies.

 it's being pushed by Republicans (0+ / 0-)

The speculation meme comes from the Republican side of the aisle. We will not be OK if the (highly theoretical) speculators get whacked, we'll just delay things slightly. We need to change. Think national electrified rail and no more cars change ...

 SemGroup?????? (0+ / 0-)

Oh yeah speculation has NO effect on prices
WSJ:
Susheel Kirpalani, an attorney representing bondholders, said trading oil futures for profit wasn't supposed to be in the ordinary course of the firm's business -- a distinction that he said could affect his clients' right to recover. "I don't think the company was supposed to be doing trades for financial profits...and just betting on where the market price was going to go."

A spokesman for SemGroup declined to comment Thursday.

News of the company's woes sparked a debate this week over what impact its positions in oil futures had on the recent drop in oil prices in recent weeks. The firm's collapse also highlights the challenges facing many energy companies in today's volatile markets.

 when will this happens? (0+ / 0-)

think something happening with the Persian Gulf and then we've got no oil.

And when it happens, do the SPR really mean a thing because how long will it last?

Shocking: Palin is worse than Bush.

by iBlue on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:26:23 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Republican crap! (0+ / 0-)

The Republicans always use these scare tactics.  The truth is they like the high prices.  Assholes.

"I was judged eventually, after three years, of using, quote, poor judgment, and I agree with that assessment." -- McCain on Keating 5

by noofsh on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:28:09 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 It's there so that the Military can operate (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Sparhawk, Stranded Wind

....in case the oil gets shut off (First stop, the Persian Gulf)....not so you can fill your  cars tank

Today's Halloween Movie Viewing: Friday the 13th (1980)

by jds1978 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:43:50 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 continuity reserve (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
jds1978

That is right - I stored fifty gallons of gas last summer (relax, brick outbuilding far from the house) and it ticks me off that it got burned up this summer in my mother's lawn mowing fetish. It was there for the time when the station up the street was out for the third day in a row ...

 must be the place (0+ / 0-)

It was there for the time when the station up the street was out for the third day in a row

I never experience that.

Shocking: Palin is worse than Bush.

by iBlue on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 04:11:31 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 chronic shortages (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
alizard, jds1978

Last summer the Dakotas experienced chronic diesel shortages during fall harvest. Iowa had spot outages of gasoline. It can and does happen here, it will be happening with more frequency in the future.

 agree (0+ / 0-)

but then why the SPR reserve double from 400M barrel to 700B barrel over the last five years?

Is that true that the military consumption double in the same time?

In this global world market, completely oil shut off is quite hypothetical. It is not gonna happens. We effectively cut off oil from Iraq in 2003-2004 and then what?

I agree that we do need SPR. But build up in SPR in face of $100 oil like Bush is not justifiable. Think about it like this: Bush use tax money to get oil out of the market to put in SPR in the name of security. Compare that to his other action.

We do need SPR and now it is time to release some.
Federal Reserve/Oil Reserve, similarity?

Shocking: Palin is worse than Bush.

by iBlue on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 04:16:50 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 the SPR isn't for *us* (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Sparhawk, jck

The Pentagon doesn't care if we can drive our cars or heat our homes in the winter.  That's not what the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is there for.

It's there for the MILITARY.  The name is entirely accurate, and is no mistake.  The US military, like everyone else's in the world, is entirely utterly absolutely completely dependent on oil.  Every jet that flies, every naval task force that leaves harbor, every tank that rolls, every Hummer that speeds along, is utterly dependent on gas.  No gas, no military.

The SPR is there for one purpose -- it is to give the US military enough in reserve so that "if the supply of oil is interrupted" (i.e., if the Arabs refuse to sell us gas again), we have a sufficient supply on hand here to supply the military long enough to invade some oil-producing country and let us TAKE their gas.

And given the situation in the Middle East with Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan, if you think the military is gonna let us use their gas reserve to drive to work, you are deluded.

Editor, Red and Black Publishers http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

by Lenny Flank on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 03:00:08 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Making sense (0+ / 0-)

Someone here making sense..

 something like... (0+ / 0-)

a desperation move to get "Insane" McCain votes by starting a war on Iran?

At that point, we'll need some of that SPR oil and rationing, since oil will NOT be coming through the Strait of Hormuz.

Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

by alizard on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 08:24:07 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 This will be the most important issue in 2008 (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
wishingwell, cartwrightdale, iBlue

Democrats and team Obama need to improve their game and explain that drilling is a scam non-solution that WILL NOT lead to lower gas prices and is designed solely to win over ignorant voters and to give away land to oil corporations.

If we don't tackle this issue head on we deserve to lose, frankly.

Conservatism = greed, hate, fear and ignorance

by Joe B on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:20:16 PM PDT

 No kidding (0+ / 0-)

I cannot believe Obama's website doesn't mention a single thing -- not a theory, nothing -- for helping gas prices in the short term.  All the long-term 2030/2050 stuff he talks about is great, but we ARE going to lose in November on this issue if we don't get our act together.  McCain's drill-now plan is, of course, a scam, BUT it sounds a hell of a lot better than "well, lets improve emissions standards so in 2050 cars cost less."  What!?!?  And how many more old people have to die because they can't afford heat?  Or people starve because food prices have doubled?  As an Obama volunteer, I hear "Obama's alright, but I can't afford this gas" ALL THE FRIGGIN TIME.  Fix this, now.

 me too (0+ / 0-)

I hear it every day when out in the community. Every single person says it.

 Well (0+ / 0-)

We're talking to people trying to get them to support Obama.  The gas thing is a real sticking point with some people here.

 As a Senator, what would you propose Obama do? (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Sparhawk, alizard

He can't propose the "gas holiday" plan because it would a) be a bad idea b) be a flip-flop.  Releasing oil from the SPR is a short term gimmick and is part of the BS politics of the past that Obama is trying to move past.

If Obama is what he claims to be he needs to be "the grown up" and speak the truth.  We are in this mess because we (american citizens, american drivers, american politicians) have done nothing about having a comprehensive energy plan that allows us to use energy more efficiently and in a cleaner fashion.  He should perhaps also indicate that unless we get serious about energy (and energy price increases) then we can only expect future price shocks in the future.

If you have a better idea than to speak the truth to the American people I would love to hear it.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

by theotherside on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 02:55:12 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 there is NOTHING we can do (0+ / 0-)

Oil production has peaked.  The gas is gone.  Period.

It takes 250 million years to make more.

Gas will never be cheap again.  Never ever.

It's time we got used to it.  Indeed, it's jsut started -- by next year gas will cost even more, and it will only continue to go up.  And up.  And up.

Either we build a post-oil economy (and do it quick), or we go under.

Editor, Red and Black Publishers http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

by Lenny Flank on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 03:02:58 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Peak Oil (0+ / 0-)

There is indeed a healthy debate as to whether or not we've reached peak oil.  But then again, those estimates do not include oil shale, which other countries process, and we do not.  An ambitious plan can be put in place which weans our reliance on oil altogether, but does not collapse our country in the meantime.  A drastic increase in off-shore drilling and oil shale recovery can, according to estimates, make the U.S. independent of foreign oil in around 10-15 years.  Prices will begin to wane in 5, so we at first need to use the oil reserves to keep prices at 2004-2005 levels until new efforts bear fruit.  But do this all under strict orders that this is a band-aid only.  Create a date in which all new cars sold in the U.S. must be completely free of non-renewable traditional gasoline, say by 2025.  Convert older homes to electric heat and forbid gas-delivery to newly constructed homes by as soon as 2012.  As far as major energy concerns, the only viable choice right now is Nuclear (as most Western countries have already figured out), but with the rapid progress in ultra-efficient solar generation, even that will hopefully be a "temporary" solution (at least in terms of the next century.)  None of this is "easy", just varying degrees of "really really hard".  But I trust Obama more than McCain to make these choices, and if Obama doesn't have some real answers to lowering the cost of gas in the next five years, McCain will win handily.

 nuclear power companies have made the same (0+ / 0-)

promises for 50 years now.  They've never delivered.  They won't now, either.

European countries, like Germany and Denmark, are moving towards wind-generated power.

So should we.

And if we REALLY want Florida to help us with our energy problem, we could mandate that every new house built in Florida MUST have solar panels on the roof.  The cost would be less than 2% of the average new home, and it would produce far more energy than the entire offshore oil supply will.

Editor, Red and Black Publishers http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

by Lenny Flank on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 04:21:11 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Also in the southwest. (