Daily Kos

McCain: We won the Iraqi civil war

Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:00:25 PM PDT

Ever since Nouri al-Maliki endorsed Barack Obama's plan to withdraw most US troops from Iraq within about 16 months, John McCain has been agitatedly trying to find a cloud in the silver lining. He's opted to belittle Obama's judgment for opposing the "surge" - implying somehow that the US has won the sectarian civil war by placing more troops in the middle of it. What we won is left unclear, but whatever it is McCain is keen to take the credit.

Speaking to Hispanic vets on Friday in Colorado, however, McCain moved beyond mere vaunting to full mouth frothing. In situations like these the temptation is always to rebut McCain point by point. But sometimes you have to resist the easy route. Sometimes, tactically, it's more effective to force yourself just to stand back and report the Berserk as you happen to find it.

Without further ado, then, McCain's insights on the Iraqi civil war:

McCain, a Vietnam War veteran, said if Obama had succeeded in his effort to prevent last year's boost in U.S. troop levels in Iraq, American forces would have had to retreat under fire, the Iraqi army would have collapsed and al Qaeda would have found a safe haven..."We rejected the audacity of hopelessness, and we were right," the Arizona senator added

Because drawing fire is more hopeful than evading it.

"We face another choice today. We can withdraw when we have secured the peace and the gains we have sacrificed so much to achieve are safe," McCain said. "Or we can follow Senator Obama's unconditional withdrawal and risk losing the peace even if that results in spreading violence and a third Iraq war."

'Unconditional withdrawal' - a cute turn of phrase. Makes you wonder whether McCain would prefer, say, negotiated violence.

"Senator Obama and I ... faced a decision, which amounted to a real-time test for a future commander in chief," McCain said. "America passed that test. I believe my judgment passed that test. And I believe that Senator Obama's failed."

McCain doesn't grade on a curve, America! And just look how Obama even failed at his attempts to fail.

"Senator Obama made a different choice. He not only opposed the new strategy, but actually tried to prevent us from implementing it. He didn't just advocate defeat, he tried to legislate it. When his efforts failed, he continued to predict the failure of our troops."

Boy is he lousy at predicting things.

"As our soldiers and Marines prepared to move into Baghdad neighborhoods and ... villages, Senator Obama predicted that their efforts would make the sectarian violence in Iraq worse - worse! - not better."...

In retrospect, given the opportunity to choose between failure and success, he chose failure," McCain said. "I cannot conceive of a commander in chief making that choice."

Is John McCain trying to convince us that he's the smart one, or the angry one?

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Tags: John McCain, Iraq, Barack Obama (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 138 comments

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 This is terrific (16+ / 0-)

Just when the light at the end of the Iraqi tunnel begins to appear, John McCain is spending all his time justifying his support for this deeply unpopular and dishonest war.

Keep it up, Grampa.  We couldn't win a landslide without you.

I can't expect to live in a democracy if I'm not prepared to do the work of being a citizen.

by Dallasdoc on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:09:58 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 He can rant if he wants to... (8+ / 0-)

I'd rather leave that war behind.

I doubt America will want to spend four years in the Hanoi Hilton with him.

I can't expect to live in a democracy if I'm not prepared to do the work of being a citizen.

by Dallasdoc on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:12:54 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 That's where we're going... (8+ / 0-)

The man is filled with rage.

He's just one mean son of a bitch and he's far more dangerous than Bush ever was.  

[This space for rent]

by David Kroning on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:14:40 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 McCain is his own Cheney (16+ / 0-)

... but this week has convinced me more than ever before that McCain is seriously losing his marbles.  I've waited for this to become apparent, as he was kept pretty much under wraps earlier in the campaign.  The more he goes out under the klieglights, the worse his mental capacities look.

Can we afford to elect a man who's losing his marbles even before he takes the oath of office?  Four years is a long damn time in that circumstance.

I can't expect to live in a democracy if I'm not prepared to do the work of being a citizen.

by Dallasdoc on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:17:44 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 He's worse than Pete Dementia (R-NM) (5+ / 0-)

At least dementia has an incurable brain disease.  McSenile has just been an asshat for so long that he sees the world through shit-stained glasses.

"The first rule is to have an untroubled spirit. The second rule is to see things the way they are, and act accordingly." -- Marcus Aurelius

by NM Ward Chair on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:22:08 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 McCheney?!? (n/t) (5+ / 0-)

"The first rule is to have an untroubled spirit. The second rule is to see things the way they are, and act accordingly." -- Marcus Aurelius

by NM Ward Chair on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:30:14 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Aha! Yes, Oh, Yes: McCheney!!!!!! (0+ / 0-)

That's it: McCheney

Very good.

And, on other occasions:

     McMean

McSurge

McArmchair

McMissile

McSnakeyes

McHundred

 We all knew his marbles were gone (3+ / 0-)

long ago when Baghdad markets looked like midwestern country fairs to him.  And still he gets the nomination.  He was the best man the Republicans could put forward. Isn't that something?

 Gimme my war back (6+ / 0-)

[image]

Free University and Health Care for all, now. -8.88, -7.13

by SoCalHobbit on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:31:31 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Who are you calling a "man?" (0+ / 0-)

McCain's a freaking corpse.  A mummy.  A fossil.

"The first rule is to have an untroubled spirit. The second rule is to see things the way they are, and act accordingly." -- Marcus Aurelius

by NM Ward Chair on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:48:50 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 I think you're replying to a different post - eom (0+ / 0-)

Free University and Health Care for all, now. -8.88, -7.13

by SoCalHobbit on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 08:22:09 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Angry...just like Mr. Wilson (17+ / 0-)

 title=

Thanks to Tweety for this apt reference.

"Somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot."

by Gramarye on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:01:31 PM PDT

 errrrm... (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
elveta, ek hornbeck, philipmerrill

Who is this?

 Looks vaguely familiar (eom) (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
elveta, ek hornbeck

"The first rule is to have an untroubled spirit. The second rule is to see things the way they are, and act accordingly." -- Marcus Aurelius

by NM Ward Chair on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:09:10 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 not me (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
elveta, Dallasdoc, ek hornbeck

but my son is sometimes a little like Dennis The Menace so I feel like Mr. Wilson

 Dennis the Menace's neighbor (8+ / 0-)

Dennis would be Bush, in that analogy.

At least the name fits, he's a menace, that's for sure.

 Joseph Kearns... (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
SherriG, NM Ward Chair

...who played grumpy neighbor George Wilson opposite Jay North's Dennis in the early 1960's sitcom Dennis the Menace.

Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight. John McCain = Old Boat Anchor

by JeffW on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:36:07 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Mr. Wilson looks so young (5+ / 0-)

when I was a kid, he seemed so OLD!

and he definitely looks young compared to McSame!

Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
25 days until the '08 elections. Let's paint the country BLUE!

by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:50:02 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 exactly what I thought. n/t (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
TrueBlueMajority, ChocolateChris

 McCain is running a campaign... (9+ / 0-)

...that mirrors the Nixon campaign in 1972 that promised "peace with honor." I explore that more fully here:

John McCain’s Summer of Love American Style

[image]

 Is that the year McCain dumped his first wife? (6+ / 0-)

I'm a little hazy on the details.

I can't expect to live in a democracy if I'm not prepared to do the work of being a citizen.

by Dallasdoc on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:10:45 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Grreat graphic! And it's so borrowed ;-) n/t (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
NM Ward Chair

 Problem is...Nixon Won! n/t (0+ / 0-)

Let the pastors, rabbis and mullahs mutter their mumbo-jumbo in private and leave the rest of us alone.

by detler on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:59:16 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Too subtle by half (8+ / 0-)

McCain's people can't accept that the American people want out of the war/occupation.  They don't care who won or who lost; they just want their boys back and they are fed up paying for it.  What he says doesn't matter accept to villagers like Hiatt and Broder, and the people don't care jack about what they think.

The repukes are struggling to find a theme they can use against Obama. So far they've come up empty.  

 McCain makes me sick sometimes... (7+ / 0-)

I'm really glad I only have to put up with another 3 1/2 months of that man campaigning...maybe less if the GOP does the right thing and puts his campaign out of its misery.

Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

by darthstar on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:05:45 PM PDT

 They don't have anyone better... (8+ / 0-)

Mittens?  Ghouliani?  Those doofuses couldn't even beat McSenile!

"The first rule is to have an untroubled spirit. The second rule is to see things the way they are, and act accordingly." -- Marcus Aurelius

by NM Ward Chair on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:10:59 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 He can't speak of his own economic plan (14+ / 0-)

his mouth is out of control in national security,

what's next?

h/t thinkprogress

"He has certainly I’m sure said things in town halls" that don’t jibe perfectly with his written plan. But that doesn’t mean it’s official.
Douglas Holtz-Eakin, McCain’s chief economic adviser

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

by IamTheJudge on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:06:48 PM PDT

 He can't even speak coherently about National (13+ / 0-)

Security.

I was listening to his interview on Blitzer's shit-room, and he used circular logic at least three times in two minutes.

He slipped once, saying "I'm attacking--[Sen. Obama]"--then corrected himself and said "I question his judgment...I have the judgment necessary to deal with Iraq because I have good judgment."

So McCain has good judgment because he says he has good judgment...but he never gives examples of said judgment.

Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

by darthstar on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:17:18 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Since McCain only speaks for McCain, (4+ / 0-)

I guess that means he doesn't mean what he says he means.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

by missLotus on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:21:31 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Cindy? Oh, There You Are. Hon, Did You See My (0+ / 0-)

Plans for the economic recovery - i mean surge, the home surge, or wait... Yeah The Surge At Home?
No. I had it on the little table next to the - hunh.
Okay. Never mind. I got it.
Hey! They changed it to Surgenomics!
That sounds better.
You like it, Hon?
Surgenomics. Wonder what it's about?
When did i think this up?
I don't think Phil told me about this. Oh, gee.
There goes another weekend...

 I'd love to see someone quote portions of (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
NM Ward Chair, renzo capetti

his own economic plan to McCain, but attributing it to Obama. Just don't stand to close to the resulting rhetoric vortex.
Wolfy, Tweety come on, this is your shot at redemption.
As if.

"A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born." -Antoine de Saint Exupéry

by MackInTheBox on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:42:00 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 asdf (0+ / 0-)

"The first rule is to have an untroubled spirit. The second rule is to see things the way they are, and act accordingly." -- Marcus Aurelius

by NM Ward Chair on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:49:58 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 McCain speaks for McCain (0+ / 0-)

but that doesn't mean it's official

 MaCain is a fucking retard (5+ / 0-)

 LMAO! (eom) (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Sally in SF

"The first rule is to have an untroubled spirit. The second rule is to see things the way they are, and act accordingly." -- Marcus Aurelius

by NM Ward Chair on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:28:45 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Insurbordination in the Ranks? (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Vicky, Black Max

Certainly it would have been a mistake for any potential President to "choose failure" (not a good slogan).But aside from McCain's ludicrously simplistic view of the possible outcomes surely it's beyond the pale to suggest that a potential Commander in Chief is unfit for the job,no matter how much you disagree with him politically?

 why? (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
ek hornbeck, SherriG, renzo capetti

Suppose the candidate is half-crazed?

 McSenile is unfit for command, after all! (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
majcmb1, JeffW, renzo capetti

He's not a Vietnam war hero, even.  He's a victim.

"The first rule is to have an untroubled spirit. The second rule is to see things the way they are, and act accordingly." -- Marcus Aurelius

by NM Ward Chair on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:12:46 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 An out of date, simplistic view of the world. (12+ / 0-)

It's the same in his take on war and terrorism as it is in everything else he does. He's using old thinking to deal with new problems. And doesn't have a clue.

 Remind you of anyone? (6+ / 0-)

Sheeze. McCain mirrors Bush is so many ways it's spooky. And now we see that his campaign is tapping the same election fraud expertise that gave Bush the Presidency in 2000 and 2004. Gawd help us.

Never moon a werewolf.

by Bugsby on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:23:32 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 That really should be what this campaign harps on (5+ / 0-)

though. The "McCain is an old non-tech fuddy-duddy" stuff is almost just said as teasing for fun, but it's actually of a piece with his failure to grasp the nature of the threats we now face.

Iraq was a complete, utter, disaster. It was the wrong way to think about terrorism and what threatened us.

The fact that McCain would lead us into ANOTHER of these messes in a minute, that he makes no secret of that, should make any of this debate about the ways to get out of this current mess something that no one should allow him to even have a say in.

Eh. Sputter, sput, grumble.

McCain makes me feel like McCain.

 McCain = faulty judgement= incompetent leadership (3+ / 0-)

Iraq was a complete, utter, disaster. It was the wrong way to think about terrorism and what threatened us.

Absolutely right. And the key to defeating McCain is to remind voters that he is a cheerleader for the worst foreign policy disaster in American history.

Never moon a werewolf.

by Bugsby on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:43:48 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 The man was damaged in Vietnam (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
SherriG, Melissa J, renzo capetti

in more ways than physically. His comment about Obama making up his mind about policy without being briefed by Petraeus first shows just how much in lockstep his mind moves in terms of hierarchical authority. He is incapable of truly independent thinking. This is why he flip-flops. He's just saying what he thinks people want to hear, putting it within the totally irrelevant context of his military experience because, in his life, this is all he thinks he has that distinguishes him from the average Joe.

"Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it." ML King

by TheWesternSun on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:59:05 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Mr. "Last in his class" (7+ / 0-)

can't possibly be the smart one, and the angry one turns voters off, especially the Rethugs.  Talk about self-inflicted wounds!  May he sabotage himself into losing in a landslide.

"The first rule is to have an untroubled spirit. The second rule is to see things the way they are, and act accordingly." -- Marcus Aurelius

by NM Ward Chair on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:08:27 PM PDT

 Already happening. (5+ / 0-)

Only the Media is in denial.

 Americans would surely love to believe that our (10+ / 0-)

Magical Mystery War that appears in its absolute abstraction to have cost nothing actually turned out to be a victory when nobody was looking.

McCain is riding damn close to nutso-wacko land, but next to nobody in the corporate media is going to spend the time dissecting teh crazy. That's why our side has got to start saying it out loud---McSame is nuts.

I say Obama needs surrogates out there lobbing kitchen sinks tied around anvils at him.

 EXCUSE ME. (13+ / 0-)

but WHAT THE FUCK

This page contained an embedded video. Click here to view it.

In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell

by ElizabethAM on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:08:35 PM PDT

 She is heinous. n/t (6+ / 0-)

Always be sincere, even if you don't mean it. - Harry S Truman

by parker parrot on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:12:50 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Gosh that's so clever Laura (10+ / 0-)

I love the way they actually have to use subtitles, to make sure the mouth breathers can understand. They should just put comic books in that right panel.

 Sometimes I wonder (6+ / 0-)

if she truly knows how awful she is so she just doesn't care what she says. What is with the angry, bitter, blonde and conservative Fox News "contributors"? They are a dime a dozen on that set. What's in the water?

In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell

by ElizabethAM on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:16:20 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Convervative base is high percentage male (5+ / 0-)

so not hard to figure really what's up with that.

It's either the red-faced Dobbsian-O'Rielly screamers reflecting their inner fed up put-upon bigot who feels the world's against him, or some attractive platinum, always in their favorite style, overly-coiffed and so on, to appeal to a different part.

 The little head! (eom) (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Black Max

"The first rule is to have an untroubled spirit. The second rule is to see things the way they are, and act accordingly." -- Marcus Aurelius

by NM Ward Chair on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:24:32 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Oh wait I get it. (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Black Max

I think.

Reminds me of a really bad mermaid joke from many moons ago...

That's another story though.

 It's The Shorter Line. She's Collected Her (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
NM Ward Chair

scheckles - to hell with the rest of humanity.

"You can tell the truth but you better have a fast horse." - Rita Mae Brown -8.38, -5.54

by majcmb1 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:40:05 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 Proof positive that Fox rots your brain... (0+ / 0-)

especially if your ON the show....

"A lie repeated, may be accepted as fact, but the truth repeated becomes self evident." -Elonifer Skyhawk

by Fireshadow on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 11:28:38 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 It's so you can follow it in the bar. (6+ / 0-)

The above comment is probably disrespectful of John McCain's military service somehow.

by RickMassimo on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:21:46 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 It is interesting just how tabloidish (5+ / 0-)

Fox News packages its reporting.

And anyone seen the "BothSidesBarack" or whatever ad from "Let Freedom Ring?" It looks like it was designed to appeal to 6th graders. Mean, unhappy 6th graders.

 "No one ever went broke (4+ / 0-)

underestimating the intelligence of the American public"

--HL Mencken, sometime in the early 20th century.

Depressing how constant these things stay.

 They're Running That In Chicago On Cable. Must (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Tricky

be part of a regional package.  

Even the handful of morans calling themselves "Let Freedom Ring" could be stoopid enough to spend $$$ on airing their dreck in IL.

"You can tell the truth but you better have a fast horse." - Rita Mae Brown -8.38, -5.54

by majcmb1 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:44:35 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 likely national ad buy (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
majcmb1

cheaper but can't control where it airs, but yes is a waste of time, I hope they are espending the big bucks in CA and the northeast

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

by IamTheJudge on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 09:58:08 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 What, is she auditioning for a job (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
NM Ward Chair

with McSame's campaign?  She's a PERFECT replacement for O'LIElly, don't you think?  A female version of the world's most offensive media pundit!

 What a hate-filled, twisted POV. n/t (0+ / 0-)

"Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it." ML King

by TheWesternSun on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 08:02:31 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

 McGrumpy is flip flopping (4+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
Vicky, Black Max, echatwa, NM Ward Chair

on a timetable even if it is conditioned based.

It is obvious that Obama has set the agenda for BOTH Bush and McGrumpy.

Obama: "Because We Won... We Have to Win." 6/6/08

by Drdemocrat on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:10:12 PM PDT

 John McSame... (7+ / 0-)

is the irrelevant one.

And so is his failed party.

 Does this guy have a future tense in his (11+ / 0-)

vocabulary? I don't hear one damn thing about the future. The only thing he can talk about  is what Obama did wrong in the past, what he personally did right in the past. Does he have an original idea? At all? Anything? I sure haven't seen it.

Always be sincere, even if you don't mean it. - Harry S Truman

by parker parrot on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:12:24 PM PDT

 And this is what the media should be (5+ / 0-)

pointing out - that McSame is not telling voters what he's going to do about everything should he become prez, God forbid.  He wants very badly to make this election about Iraq because he believes he'll win on national security and that's why he won't shut up about the surge, defeat, winning, withdrawal, time tables, etc.  And that's why he's not talking about what matters to everyone right now - THE ECONOMY.  It's amazing to me how he thinks he can ignore what the people are really concerned about and win.  I just wish he'd

[image]

 what is Penn saying there? (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
SherriG, ChocolateChris

I can't quite make it out :-D

Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
25 days until the '08 elections. Let's paint the country BLUE!

by TrueBlueMajority on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 07:52:06 PM PD