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Celebrating this election...not quite sure I think this is celebraton material. Electing the brother-in-law of the General Secretary seems a bit limited in scope for people who continually claim to be visionary trendsetters of the 21st Century. Nothng against Doug Clay, but you can't convince me there weren't others who are as quailified and who are not a relative of the General Secretary John Palmer.

January 18, 2008 6:23 PM

Anonymous:

What exactly would you have said to Jesus when he chose two sets of brothers (Peter and Andrew, James and John) as the first of his 12 apostles? Or for that matter when Jesus' brother James was chosen to head the church at Jerusalem?

George

January 18, 2008 6:30 PM

Oh, one more thing: Before General Council, Doug Clay garnered a lot of votes in the poll of potential General Superintendents. In fact, if memory serves, many touted him as precisely the kind of leader who could take the AG forward into the new millennium. And now you're critiquing him because of his brother-in-law? Seriously? Do you honestly think the EPs chose him because John Palmer is his brother? I don't. I think they chose him because of his track record as a leader. The fact that John Palmer was his brother-in-law was incidental.

January 18, 2008 6:37 PM

Congrats to Brother Doug Clay! I was just remarking to an AGWM friend of mine two days ago how I wished he was an executive officer.

My prayers are with you Brother Clay. Take us to new heights in planting seeds for the Gospel and advancing this great fellowship!

Lane - I posted a response to Dr. Davis on the previous post. You can email me if you want.

January 18, 2008 6:48 PM

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but some people are helped along by position in ministry, through the years by family and others are passed by, call it the buddy system, nepotism, or whatever. When a decision is made like this, whether right or wrong- we should not be surprised that people will expect interpret this present news in this matter.

January 18, 2008 6:52 PM

Fom what I know the Exec. leadership is made up of 6 individuals. When two of the 6 are out of the office meetings can be held and decisions made with a quorum of 4. If at meetings held with a quorum the two brothers-in-law are present they hold 50% of the vote. Is that a good thing?
Blood.......is thicker than water!

January 18, 2008 7:08 PM

To elect a brother-in-law of one of the Executive Presbyters is not only nepotism at its worst, but says to the church world at large that the Assemblies of God has a shortage of qualified ministers to fill vacant posts. One does wonder what the other Executives were thinking, or were they just trying to pacify the new General.
As to what Jesus did, I hardly think the Executives are Jesus, and in the present culture, nepotism is still frwoned upon. In fact it is discouraged.

Under G. Raymond Carlson I was considered for a position, but G. Raymond Carlson said no becouse I was related to one of the Executives. It was a good decision then, and it would be still today.

January 18, 2008 7:14 PM

George,

Let me jump in and share my HMO. People aren't questioning and being overly cynical. Just wise. I don't think the EPs elected Doug because of his brother-in-law, I think they should have gone a different route because of his brother-in-law. People are just naturally going to be cynical because they felt the election for the General Secretary was already manipulated/finessed by the family influence (Doug in the GPs stepping out of the nomination so John would have a clearer path). Then to compound the problem the GPs only put up two alternative names from 30,000 plus ministers. Nobody's debating whether Doug is a good guy. But just because something is lawful, doesn't mean it is expedient. My opinion... if he was the only one that was qualified, then he was a great choice. If he wasn't the only qualified man then it probably wasn't wisdom.
All this said, I am sure GOW and the EP's considered the potential criticism this would invite. Even though I don't agree, I commit to pray for our new executive leadership team.

January 18, 2008 7:17 PM

My problem with the comments of the various Anonymi is that the first thing they have to say is not congratulations, or even what a great choice, but he's got a brother-in-law on the EPs. That's what strikes me as so cynical, especially when Clay received such plaudits on this blog prior to General Council.

Second, the blood is thicker than water doesn't hold water in my experience (sorr for the choice of words). I've got a dad, his son, and his son-in-law on my board, and the sharpest disagreements about policy usually are between the three of them. And anyway, since John and Doug are in-laws, the proverb doesn't exactly apply to them, does it?

January 18, 2008 7:24 PM

Anonymous January 18, 2008 7:14 PM:

I'm not exactly sure how Jesus appointing two sets of brothers is nepotistic, given that neither set was related to Jesus. In the same way, Doug Clay's appointment as General Treasurer doesn't count as nepotistic because John Palmer didn't appoint him. For all I know, Palmer recused himself from voting precisely because of a perceived (though, in my opinion) not real conflict of interest.

So, let's retire the charge of nepotism. A group of individuals electing a person who is not their relative is not nepotistic under any received definition of the term.

GPW

January 18, 2008 7:34 PM

As someone having as much to lose from this election as anyone, I can assure you of the integrity of the process. Not only is this fellowship gaining a tremendous leader, but the purity and leading of the Holy Spirit was never more evident than it was through our General Superintendent and EPs. I was privileged to witness some of the prayer, discussions, humility and integrity that went into this decision, and at no time was nepotism a factor whatsoever. There will always be many who we think could qualify, but that is because we look through human eyes. Thankfully, God picks the one that fits His qualifications, and I for one am glad He doesn't leave those decisions up to us.

January 18, 2008 7:48 PM

Anonymous January 18, 2008 7:14 PM:

The more I read your comment, the more incredulous I become. As I explained above, the EPs electing Doug Clay is not nepotistic.

But the more I consider the various motives you suggest for his election, the more bizarre your suggestions become.

You suggest, for example, that selecting Clay indicates to the world that the AG has a dearth of qualified ministers to fill the post. But are you seriously suggesting the alternative, that the person whom the EPs consider the most qualified candidate should be disqualified simply because he's related to John Palmer? Or, to come at this from another direction, are you seriously suggesting that the EPs willfully chose a second best candidate only because he's related to John Palmer? You're in a bind here. Either you must believe that Doug Clay is the best qualified candidate, and should therefore be passed over, or that he's the second best candidate, and should therefore be passed over.

Then you write, "One does wonder what the other Executives were thinking." Perhaps they were simply thinking that Doug Clay was the best qualified candidate. Or are you seriously suggesting that the EPs can be cowed into submission by John Palmer?

No, not John Palmer! You suggest that my dad cowed them into electing someone whom they didn't believe was the best qualified candidate. In your own words, they wanted to "pacify the new General." Honestly--and I know he's my dad--but that suggestion is just beneath contempt.

At the end of the day, these are the suggestions you have put forward for why the EPs chose Doug Clay: nepotism, groupthink, and cowardice.

Wouldn't it be charitable, especially on the day the guy gets appointed, simply to be happy for him rather than automatically reaching for some dark, insidious explanation that along the way insults the intelligence and honor of the people who appointed him?

Just asking.

GPW

January 18, 2008 7:48 PM

There's a lot of "anonymous" crap in here that simply needs to be flushed and forgotten.

Doug Clay is a man of character and virtue - the BEST MAN for the job. Thus, His election.

Never forget God's role in this vote & decision.

January 18, 2008 7:51 PM

Congratulations to Doug Clay. It appears that he is well qualified. Let's continue to pray for our leaders and for James Bridges as he leaves.

The fact is many of us have relatives who pastor. Many ministries have family teams. I've always thought it would be great to pastor with my brother, but he won't move to LA and I won't move to Indy.

I agree with the cynics, however, that this will appear to the "unchurched" as another example of nepotism. But I think they are used to seeing that at the local level, so it probably won't alter their opinion either way. I am going to presume that the Execs are well aware of the criticism they might take, but believed that such a move will help in propelling the AG forward.

I also believe that the entire executive group takes their decisions seriously and would not let "in-laws" hi-jack the direction of our movement. (remember, we elected the leaders who appointed him). At some point we must trust the leaders God put in place for this time. If we can't do that, then there's no reason to even continue critiquing the 16 FT's -

Marvin J. Miller
mjmiller@palmviewchristian.org

January 18, 2008 7:53 PM

George P... regarding Jesus,the brothers,etc...Doubtful Jesus and the brothers sat at cherry desks/tables in leather chairs setting policy and direction for Jesus ministry. By the time James was at the church in Jerusalem, Jesus had already paid with his life and had ascended to heaven. Therefore your point regarding this is invalid.
BTW The brothers did cause a problem with the seating assignments.
Concerning congrats here again Doug's not a bad guy, but IMHO it's a bad move.

January 18, 2008 7:55 PM

Doug.... Congrats! I don't know you, nor will I ever likely get the chance to sit down and pick your brain, but I am glad God has placed you in this leadership position! May God bless the actions that you take and grant you wisdom in your decicions!

As far as the criticism goes, we must trust the decisions that those we have elected make. I don't care whether he is the brother anyone in leadership or he is some random selection. God will bless the ministry either way. Quit second guessing everything and let these guys prove their way. If something goes wrong, then you can come out and criticize, but the guy hasnt done anything to warrant criticism! Guy him a break!!!

January 18, 2008 8:16 PM

Just wondering,

But if one had to be in the tribe of Levi, wouldn't every high priest be related to the prior one somehow...

And if so, how did they pick, since everybody was a relative...

Oh yeah, by the moving of God's Spirit after prayer and fasting...

January 18, 2008 8:21 PM

Anonymous January 18, 2008 7:55 PM:

Your logic is impeccable. In fact, it inspires me to make this point: Since Jesus didn't post anonymous comments on FutureAG, your point about my point is also invalid.

GPW

January 18, 2008 8:37 PM

George P WOOD denouncing nepotism is hilarious. I'm sure that his comments have nothing to do with his father being the head of the A/G. This was NOT a wise move by the EP's. They will take a lot of flack for this and rightfully so. Hit me with your comments now George as I know you will be you of all people should not be waving the banner speaking against nepotism. It rings hollow

January 18, 2008 9:25 PM

This election just shows that nothing really has changed much in Springfield. Business as usual folks.

January 18, 2008 9:26 PM

Testy testy George....calm down now

January 18, 2008 9:35 PM

Anonymous...

If you think family members should not be allowed to serve on the GP, write up a resolution to hit the floor at the next GC and see how many people agree with you. This is one situation where a resolution could have effect since the GP would have to abide by the Constitution & Bylaws if they explicitly forbid family members from serving together.

Otherwise, you've made your point, so take it easy. Since this was an election (and not an appointment) ... I do not see the connection to nepotism.

Lane

January 18, 2008 9:56 PM

Bridges was rumored to be stepping down prior to GC. I'm sure that this was an arangement to have him retire later so that the EP could apoint someone to fill his spot rather than put it to a vote at GC. Looks that way for sure.

January 18, 2008 9:59 PM

I hope to goodness that the same people who were commenting about the ill health of our districts are not muttering under their breaths now about his election.

His vision and strategic position is exactly what we need to motivate and inspire multiplied districts across the A/G.

Who knows? Maybe that was a conscious thought in the minds of those who voted for him. Who knows? Maybe the comments left on this blog about districts and the shining example set forth in Ohio played a role.

That's change and it should be recognized and applauded. Many of us put their names down for a wake-up call. Thank you EP for listening to God and your A/G family.

January 18, 2008 10:13 PM

Admittedly, I am a bit questioning as to the process. My questioning does not make me any less sure Bro. Clay will do an outstanding job.

I think we should all examine the hoops that we jump to get to a position,and the maneuvers we perform to have those surrounding us be people we prefer.

I hope that the comments concerning Bro. Clay's quality of leadership on this blog tipped the scales of the decision--allowing them to feel at peace with bringing in a young and exemplary leader in spite of looking manipulated at first glance.

Whatever the case, ultimately he is a great choice. I know he will continue to excel through the anointing and hard work.

January 18, 2008 10:35 PM

I think a wise decision has been made in Doug Clay's selection. From all I have heard he is a top quality person who can help lead our fellowship to a healthy future.

However, I have a question.

Our district's recommended bylaws for churches, posted on our district website, states, "It is recommended that not more than one member of a family serve on the board of deacons. This is understood to include parental, sibling, and in-law relationships." Wisconsin Northern Michigan District Recommended Constitution and Bylaws for Class A Churches, Article VII, Section D, paragraph 5.

How might the wisdom in this for churches be different for General Council leadership?

Richard York

January 19, 2008 4:26 AM

It's convenient to paint GPW into a place where he can't respond because of who his father is. But it is his blog for crying out loud. He should say what he believes. I agree with him, and my father drives a bus.

But this decision doesn't put a spotlight on nepotism for me it has put a spotlight on bitterness. Maybe the change so many of us long for isn't a problem of leadership but of the poisonous root of bitterness.

Ephesians 4:31 - 32 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

January 19, 2008 6:40 AM

Come on guys…all this talk about nepotism and everything…remember this is the AG we’re talking about and it is the Midwest!! I once had a youth pastor who was getting married and he went down to the Greene County Records office in Springfield, MO to pay for his marriage license and the clerk asked a series of questions including, “Now are you and your fiancé related?†His response, being from Alaska and all, “I didn’t know we had to be!†Well, they do make exceptions in Missouri if you’re not at least third cousins, by marriage…(but not many!).

It’s called endogamy –marrying to keep property, wealth, and power within the family. And it’s alive and well within the AG. I’d love to have a dollar bill for every happenstance conversation I’ve had with other AG people that went something like this, “Hello, I’m Brother Smith from Springfield, IL (and my Sunday School grew 22.6% last year—but that’s another blog).†My reply, “Well, are you related to Jim and Doris Smith over in Chicago, they are missionaries to the Congo?†Response, “Yes, they’re Sandy, my wife’s aunt and uncle.†My reply, “Well, my son just married their daughter’s third girl, Jennifer—they were in college at North Central…†And on and on the family tree spreads…Oh yes, the AG gene pool has become a bit restricted. Have you ever heard of the "blue people" in the hills and hollows around Troublesome and Ball Creeks in Kentucky? A recessive gene in their blood line actually started changing their skin color. Maybe the pool of “tongue-speakin†youngsters is shrinking a bit and bona fide available marrying candidates outside the family are hard to come by?!

It reminds me of Ray Steven’s song, “I’m My Own Grandpa.†Here you go…

Now many, many years ago when I was twenty-three
I was married to a Widder who was pretty as can be
This Widder had a grown up daughter who had hair of red
My father fell in love with her and soon they two were wed.

This made my dad my son-in-law and changed my very life
My daughter was my mother for she was my father's wife
To complicate the matter even though it brought me joy
I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy.

My little baby then became a brother-in-law to dad
And so became my uncle though it made me very sad
For if he was my uncle then that also made him brother
Of the Widder’s grown up daughter who of course was my step-mother.

Father's wife then had a son who kept him on the run
And he became my grandchild for he was my daughter's son
My wife is now my mother's mother and it makes me blue
Because although she is my wife, she's my grandmother too.

Now if my wife is my grandmother, then I'm her grandchild
And every time I think of it, it nearly drives me wild
For now I have become the strangest case you ever saw
As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa.

I for one am glad our leaders actually chose and innovative District Superintendent out of the interrelated AG gene pool to serve…maybe he’ll shake things up and bring some of the great ideas from Ohio to Springfield and the entire movement!

Remember, you may be an AG redneck if, “You’ve been married three times but you still have the same inlaws!â€

January 19, 2008 7:05 AM

G.P.W.,

Don't worry about the comments of the few anonymous snipers. (I know you won't.) As a ministry friend told me years ago, "Don't wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pigs enjoy it." :-)

--Dave

January 19, 2008 7:12 AM

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January 19, 2008 7:19 AM

Someone said, "It's convenient to paint GPW into a place where he can't respond because of who his father is." Perhaps. But for me the bigest indicator that our frend had lost his bearings was his first line of defense was emotional followed by his "Oh one more thing....Clay got votes". When facts and logic follow that far behind emotion it is a sign emotions are running the show. Releax George. If you sit back, take a breath and wait a few minutes before responding, others may end up making your point for you.

January 19, 2008 7:45 AM

Hey Ben. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on a blog where it is encouraged. GPW can say whatever he wants to say but so can everyone else. Disagreeing or having an opinion other than someone elses does not mean you are bitter. Some of you guys need to toughen up and not be so thinned skinned. And some who really have limited knowledge to the nepotism that definately has gone on in Springfield (and I have lived there and seen it up close and personal) need to open your minds to the fact that it just might exist and lives on through an announcement like this.

January 19, 2008 7:45 AM

Since when do the unchurched even know who the Treasurer of the National office is? Why would they care and unless one of you anonymous fellows chose to tell them how would they even know Doug Clay is related, by marriage, to Palmer? Come on now. AND Why would we start off a conversation with someone who needs Jesus with, "Hey did you know that the National Treasurer for the AG is the brother-in-law of the National Secretary?"

January 19, 2008 8:47 AM

This line of comments has to be one of the lowest points of this blog. I don't find that redneck stuff at all funny.

Quick, George, WWBGD?

January 19, 2008 9:15 AM

Mary Jo...maybe people need to see the line of comments as a commentary of where the AG is more than where this blog is?

January 19, 2008 9:18 AM

I don't agree that Pastor Clay's election is due to family relations.

January 19, 2008 9:21 AM

Well Mary Jo it certainly didn't hurt him beng related now did it? I don't think there is any sinister plot here but the appearance is not good considering the short-term progress that had been made in changing the perception of what goes on in Springfield. Now there are questions that come up as to what really has changed if anything at all.

January 19, 2008 9:35 AM

check out this picture of the new executive team. Cut and paste to browser.

http://www.tvshowsondvd.net/graphics/news3/AllInTheFamilyS6.jpg

January 19, 2008 9:50 AM

Check out this picture of the new executive team.

http://www.tvshowsondvd.net/graphics/news3/AllInTheFamilyS6.jpg

January 19, 2008 9:56 AM

The tone has changed since August when many wanted Pastor Clay in Springfield. Many wanted representation by a younger man, who was perceived as having a better understanding of the present needs of our fellowship and had a proven track record. Passing up on such an opportunity as to have Pastor Clay in Springfield because of his family relations would have been a shame. Having Pastor Clay in Springfield will only bring the A/G closer to being the absolutely relevant fellowship we all desire.

January 19, 2008 10:47 AM

Anonymous January 18, 2008 9:25 PM:

You wrote: "George P WOOD denouncing nepotism is hilarious."

What are you suggesting? That I have my position as the pastor of a 100-person turnaround church because of my dad? Or that my dad has his position because of me? What precisely do you mean by nepotism? You throw the word around without ever defining it.

You go on to say, "I'm sure that his comments have nothing to do with his father being the head of the A/G." You know how I found out that Doug Clay was elected? By reading the comment section on Paul Grabill's post. I haven't even talked to my dad since Doug got elected. What has made me so angry about your comments and those of others is the reflexive cynicism they display.

Then you conclude: "Hit me with your comments now George as I know you will be you of all people should not be waving the banner speaking against nepotism. It rings hollow." Again, how precisely have I benefited my from my dad's job? I left a cushy job as associate pastor of a 3000 member church, moved 125 miles with my wife to a different city to become the pastor of a 100-person turnaround church. And my dad wasn't involved in the process of selecting me; my district superintendent was. Oh, and I'm up for my year vote tomorrow. For all I know, I'll get voted out.

So, in addition to your reflexive cynicism about Doug Clay, I guess you're just driven by some sort of irrational resentment of me.

How sad. Get over it.

GPW

WWBGD? She wouldn't be this cynical about Doug Clay's election, I imagine. She'd congratulate him and pray he contributes mightily to this movement.

January 19, 2008 10:58 AM

GPW...your percptions of Springfield and all that goes on there is what rings hollow. No one has said you have a position because of your dad. But to try to get people to believe that your opinions and views are not swayed by the fact that your dad is GS is tough to swallow.

January 19, 2008 11:06 AM

Is it intersting that disagreement equals cynical. Talk about getting over it GPW...get over it!!

January 19, 2008 11:07 AM

The tone of GPW post really turned me off in his last post, I wouldn't want him as a pastor or on my staff with his attitude. Maybe with all of your anger Mr. GPW you should be voted out of your position. You really need to examine yourself, brother. Cushy job- assistant pastor is it a job to you or is it ministry? You are so touchy junior, people are rightfully expressing their opinions!

January 19, 2008 11:09 AM

My word boys and girls...lighten up! GPW--we're praying for your vote tomorrow! Thanks for your input on this site.

Some of us are 100% behind Doug Clay--and Bob Cook is also coming to head up AG Higher Education (another excellent choice--I have no idea who he is or isn't related to).

Much of the blog sphere is just good-spirited banter. I personally couldn't care less who's related to whom as long as they will help change the rudder direction of the ship!

By the way, here's a good-spirited picture of Clay and Cook headed back to the Ozarks home of the Beverly Hillbillies: http://hoox.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/hillbilly.jpg

January 19, 2008 11:22 AM

Those boys have aged just a bit. Too funny!!

January 19, 2008 11:45 AM

Will -- it is me, not anonymous that made the comment about the unchurched view. Give our national media, NPR, some time and it will be reported on. Especially in this Grassley era. But that's OK, I think our leadership made a good choice. Most of us have family members in ministry. That's not necessarily redneckism (Although I love that song) but a sign of good Christian upbringing from generation to generation. Something that needs to be celebrated because there's not much of it anymore.

To anonymous -- leave GPW alone. I almost made his point last night. There's dozens of churches that would offer him a cushy job becuase of his dad. He has the integrity to follow God's leading to a hard place.

Finally, I think implementation of policy might be made at cherry tables and leather chairs, but I guarantee that the direction is formed in a much less spectacular place of prayer. Dr. Woods seemed just as comfortable sitting on a folding chair at a broken table on worn tile in an old building eating home-made Mexican food at a potluck with our poverty line congregation. I'll trust him to put together the team he needs.

Marvin J. Miller

January 19, 2008 11:47 AM

I've got to tell you... I never expected all of these comments when I clicked on this thread. From my observations as a pastor in Ohio, Pastor Clay has never had to ride on any relative's coattails to obtain the level of influence that he enjoys today in Ohio. Here's the odd thing: I never even knew that he was related to Palmer... It has been a non factor in Ohio!

Congratulations Pastor Clay! Ohio is certainly going to miss your leadership as DS, but we're excited about the expansion of your leadership on a national level.

January 19, 2008 12:14 PM

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January 19, 2008 12:31 PM

George...

Don't feed the trolls, my friend. They only grow worse.

January 19, 2008 12:33 PM

Congrats to Doug Clay! He will do an outstanding job...and will be a voice for so many who are crying on this blog site for change...even those who are screaming foul that he has been chosen.

It has been my privilege to know both John Palmer and Doug Clay for around 25 years now. Both are men of impeccable integrity and are cutting-edge leaders. What is interesting is they each have their own style and approach to leadership.

Let us remember that when Doug Clay was appointed as National Youth Director and then again when elected as District Sup. of Ohio, it was not because he was John Palmer's brother-in-law but because he is a leader with innovative thinking and plugged in to the spirit of God

Wouldn't it be a shame if we disqualified leaders because they happen to be related to other leaders. Maybe rather than stressing over what "those outside" will think, we should watch this unfold. I think we will all be pleased at the outcome!

January 19, 2008 1:31 PM

I apologize for the tone of my remarks. I have been disappointed by what I take to be the reflexive cynicism about the election of Doug Clay. But personal disappointment is not an excuse for acting uncharitably toward others.

George

January 19, 2008 2:45 PM

Way to take the high road, George. I'm waiting for Anonymous (11:09 AM) to post their apology for the comment under that time stamp. That post proved my point made weeks ago that some use anonymity simply to sling mud and hide and not for "protection." I, for one, would have no problem, George, with you deleting that one. I'm sure the majority of the other bloggers would agree.

January 19, 2008 3:00 PM

I do not think anyone is saying that Doug Clay is riding on John Palmer's coat tails. He's accomplished a lot personally and in ministry. In fact, John Palmer was technically unemployed for the year preceeding his election as the General Secretary.

My take is that people are questioning if this was a good move based on input like the blogger who stated the quorum scenario. They make a good point. If a quorum is 4 out of the six execs and the brother-in-laws are two of the four? I'm not sure this is a good decision in any venue.

January 19, 2008 3:05 PM

Zorro to the rescue!

GPW, you hang in there, Trooper! You and I have not seen eye-to-eye on several issues, but you're a good man. WHAT LOSERS these guys are to pick on you ANONYMOUSLY and on a Blog site; and how UNGODLY.

There is no way the guys saying this stuff are in ministry. Let's face it...this is an OPEN Forum. Any wing-nut with a computer can post here, including SATAN!!!

Ignore 'em.

January 19, 2008 3:10 PM

George P...you have to be careful, because you kind of prove the point (family). When the Trask Team was in office you never seemed to have a problem with the free flow of criticism that was bantered about (i.e. your friend Paul Stewart's post and others).

Now that your father is in this position and has a team and is being criticised you seem to "protest too much." It would appear your objectivity regarding the free flow of information has been comprised by your relationship with your father, which is natural.

Thus the question that seems to be concerning many on this blog site and throughout the fellowship, "Is it wisdom to place family members on this leadership team or will it set us up for unnecessary challenges due to family ties and loyalities."

January 19, 2008 3:18 PM

There is long and strong scriptural precedence for families leading together: God is referred to as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; Moses and Aaron (God took care fo the grumbling on that one); Jesus Himself appointed two sets of brothers (Blood and not merely in-laws) to His inner circle.

We need to be careful that we don't find ourselves on the wrong side of an issue due to emotional cultural misgivings.

Clay was appointed after serving very well in his last post. Palmer was voted in.

One last comment: someone said "the unchurched will look at this suspiciously." Do you really think the unchurched give a flip about our hierchy? It isn't even on thier radar.

January 19, 2008 3:35 PM

Anonymous January 19, 2008 3:18 PM:

If you can show me where I have been inconsistent in my treatment of criticism of Brother Trask and my dad, I'm more than happy to publicly acknowledge my error.

For the record, I believe that no leader is beyond criticism, including my dad. Also for the record, I believe that there is a right way to deliver criticism and a wrong way.

I have striven in my posts and comments on this blog to call out what I consider to be ad hominem critiques that assume the worst about our others' motives and actions, critiques that focus on personality rather than issues, dark conspiracies rather than daylight facts.

But again, I'm more than happy to publicly acknowledge my error in inconsistent treatment of Brother Trask and my dad, if you'll show me where I've done it.

George

January 19, 2008 3:58 PM

GPW just keeps feeding this thing. Just chill George and it will die down. If your motives are as pure as you say they are then why the need to be so defensive throughout the whole discussion?

January 19, 2008 4:04 PM

Yeah, GPW, these guys aren't worth their salt. We're defending you, let it go, bro.

January 19, 2008 4:05 PM

Long time reader/first time writer: I LOVE the exchange of views that I've read over the past several months. Thank you to George and others for opening this forum. I choose to be AG and to put my trust in the leadership. I therefore have to trust their decision to select Doug Clay. In my experience the current issue gets down to this: Right or wrong, whichever view you take, the decision is made. If anyone doesn't like it, we the people have the "power" to put people and policies in place so that OUR A/G refects US and future decisions reflect that. Let's work at making voting and policy-setting available to all and then participate in the process. Can we start a discussion about that? Bringing the "process" to the people?? MHO...

January 19, 2008 4:21 PM

WHEN DO YOU GUYS HAVE TIME TO WRITE SERMONS, LEAD STAFF AND REACH YOUR COMMUNITIES?

This blog has become the "minority whip" of the Assemblies of God. I would bet your churches are suffering.

January 19, 2008 4:33 PM

If you had time to write this on a Sat afternoon you obviously are not writing a sermon, leading your staff or reaching your community at the moment. Your statement is a bit hypocritical wouldn't you think?

January 19, 2008 4:36 PM

Writing sermons? You've got to be kidding...this is the 21st century! That's what podcasts are for...I'm kidding! Haven't you heard of www.sermoncentral.com?

Why would a pastor have to lead you to reach your friends and circle of influence for Jesus (unless you're personally not being salty and bright).

Sermonettes by preacherettes make Christianette...ha! And GPW--I don't care if he is your Dad...he's doing a great job of bringing this rusty movement into the 21st century...Doug Clay is just what we need (what's a treasurer do anyway? count the $?)

January 19, 2008 4:55 PM

My first thought exactly when I read about his appointment. He's an incredibly sharp guy. So what do they do? Stick him behind a desk counting the A/G's millions. Brilliant. I sense the winds of revival right now. (

January 19, 2008 6:02 PM

"This blog has become the "minority whip" of the Assemblies of God. I would bet your churches are suffering."

uhh..NO. On the contrary; I can honestly say that our church has benefited from this Blog. I disagree with about half the stuff that goes on here, but it is still a place of learning for me.

In regards to time management; uh, I'm a Senior Pastor, so I think I better have figured that one out a long time ago.

BTW, where did all these HATERS come from???

January 19, 2008 6:16 PM

www.SermonCentral.com is cool. (The commenter, not the site!)

And, as a matter of fact, I personally lead our church in 2-hours of street evangelism, did an hour of personal evangelism TODAY, and still had time to write on this thing.

TIME MANAGEMENT.

January 19, 2008 6:18 PM

Dave Olsen & Will.

Let me clarify what I meant by my unchurched comment. I don't have as excellent command of language as does Lane, GPW, et al. Next time I'll hire an out of work screen writer and be more precise. Then, I posted anonysmously because I hit the wrong button and couldn't find an undo.

I was trying to make a point. 1) You're right, the typical person on the street doesn't know, doesn't care about the church hierarchy. 2) The media brokers, have in the past found these particular stories interesting, especially in 20th century pentecostalism. Think the Tomlinsons in early 1900's. 2) Bylaws in many places (i.e. Wisconsin) have been designed to be wary of such arrangements. 3) Charisma magazine has recently discussed such things in light of other recent events in family structured ministries and the Grassely Congressional Investigations. 4) I am confident that any potential negatives, including this very topic were thoroughly analyzed and were determined to have a much less negative factor than the positive things that will occur. Then the Spirit of God gives direction and trumps everything else. If all of us had never embarked on things that might not make since to the unchurched in this world, none of us would be in ministry.

Many of us were reared in a culture that championed meritocracy over all else. Status quo was to remain. Don't do anything or make any comment that might yield an ill reputation. Let me say this. A transformative leader will at times take a controversial stand, despite the misgivings of traditionalists in order to help make the hard change happen. Leaders who seek to maintain the status quo never have this to worry about.

At the end of the day, its all about how we are reaching souls for Christ. I think the most interesting news on Friday was not this announcement, but the article on the bar chaplains in Pennsylvania. My dear sainted grandmother would roll over in her grave, becuase back then we didn't drink or chew, nor hang out with those that do.

The future of the AG ultimately rests in how we creatively reach our world for Christ, not anything else. (for my senior friends, que the Christs Ambassadors' theme song)

Have a great Lord's Day!

Marvin J. Miller
mjmiller@palmviewchristian.org

January 19, 2008 6:35 PM

George – Doug Clay will be a great asset to the Executive Team. His life has been directed by God. His positions were because of Doug’s abilities, and God’s blessing. Anyone who knows John and Doug will tell you – these guys will pray over every decision- what more could we ask for? We were voting for Doug in Indianapolis –because we know what he has done for Ohio. I see this as a God thing.

Bob Cook is another guy that will be a tremendous blessing to our fellowship!
We have moved into another era with both of these guys.
I am no prophet, neither the son of a prophet, but this will prove to be a great week in the A/G’s.

I am looking forward to seeing these guys add their hearts and voices to Springfield.

(George rest easy – God’s in control of the vote. Our prayers are with you!)

Tom Bougher

January 19, 2008 7:23 PM

Wow........all the sudden poor GPW has become a victim. What about the people just sharing their honest opinion that in an out of control fashion he denegrated?

January 19, 2008 8:23 PM

Don't feed the trolls...

January 19, 2008 8:41 PM

Doug Clay elected as General Treasurer:

thousands of amens

George P Wood apologizing for his comments:

positive cool points

23 anonymous comments and zero anonymous apologies to go with them:

priceless

There are some things that blood ties can't buy. For this election, there's answered PrayerCards.

January 20, 2008 12:29 AM

From: Australian AOG minister, Chris Sutton ... ... I'm not part of your American fellowship, so I tend to see things from my Australian cultural bias, both nationally,and AOG-wise, so here goes ... I think those who see conspiracy theories behind this decision, should know that in Australia, our Executive had two brothers-in-law serving during a 16 year period together. ... And they both served succesively as the Ass't Superintendent. Why? Because they were both anointed, proven leaders of great growing churches,and also very effective state AOG leaders. ( = District Supt's in US.) Also one of our current executive leaders is Ashley Evans, son of former Sup't Andrew Evans, whose father was Tommy Evans, a great missionaryleader in India and Papua New Guinea. Our inspiring current Sup't Brian Houston, had his father serving on our exec,before he did. I think it's a great thing,that this Godly influence has impacted families and generations. These 'relatives' have been recognized because of the fruit of their leadership and character.I assure you that they would have gone no-where,in national leadership, through mere nepotism. You have elected a wonderfully wise,generous hearted new Sup't in George Wood, but obviously he's not going to serve 14 years like Sup't Trask, simply because of age, so I think putting proven younger leaders on your exec team is good planning for your future,as a movement! Don't we believe God is in control,as we pray,and elect leaders?(... including those who have to chose new execs,when there's a vacancy. Or is that belief just something we preach for those in our churches to practise? ) Cheer Up! - Chris Sutton, Melbourne, Australia.

January 20, 2008 2:36 AM

Wow...I have not had time to read this blog in a while....but in reading it today, I am shocked byt he lack of maturity (and the conspiracy theorist).

It sounds to me that a lot of people don't want to work together and solve problems-they just want to fight until somehow they can say they are right. I'm not interested in that kind of childishness.

Congratulations Doug Clay! I look forward to great days ahead.

January 20, 2008 6:07 AM

Amy. EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion and just because it doesn't line up with yours or GPW's or whoever doesn't mean they are immature or divisive.

Proverbs 28:23 - In the end, people appreciate frankness more than flattery. NLT

January 20, 2008 7:02 AM

Anonymous...

You are 100% right. People having varying opinions is not a sign of immaturity. But I am pretty sure that what Amy is referring to are the quotes that look like this:

Maybe with all of your anger Mr. GPW you should be voted out of your position.(11:09 AM)

You are so touchy junior, (11:09 AM)

I'm pretty sure that the word "frankness" in the passage you just quoted does not imply that this type of garbage is endorsed by God.

January 20, 2008 12:05 PM

I would bet that much of the anger reflected in this blog's "Doug Clay Elected General Treasurer" string, comes from bitter hearts and reflects to some degree a form of grief over some unspecified personal pain or failure wrought in a preacher’s hard ministry struggle.
Life just isn’t fair and neither is the ministry. Hard ministry in the trenches of this world, the difficult places, produces what I like to call, “combat ministry fatigue.†This is what some of these guys are going through. They are lashing out. Some may even have dropped out of a ministry, for a time. I actually hear and sense deep hurt from these dog piling critics of JPW. Ministry does leave casualties and often these casualties react in this fashion.
So, let our response to the criticism be measured and nurturing, not vindictive and reactive. Let us also take heed, because many of us would be vulnerable to the same expressions of pain if we went through the ringer that some of us must experience. Compassion is in order.
An approach to such unbridled rhetoric might be a back and forth debate, but I believe we would be much more constructive to offer prayer for these anonymous commentators.
In truth, I can see how someone might be disturbed over legitimate nepotistic scandals in our movement. We have had and do have some. To deny this is unreasonable. Perhaps, the real issue from these critics comes from their feeling that they have been personally injured in some way due to such nepotism. We need to distinguish a harmful form of nepotism, where individuals are unethically elevated due to family relations, from simply facilitating competent family members into service because of a competence derived from a healthy Christian upbringing.
Thank God for parents who nurture their children in such a way that they want to serve in the ministry. Many of us can not do that. I wish to God that I had such a parent. So, nepotism may be a valid concern in the AOG, but to preclude skilled people, who happen to have family ties, from advancing to positions of pastoral or administrative authority in our organization is the wrong decision. It is a waste of resources; it is unfair; it is scripturally unsound. It is simply wrong headed. Balance and integrity should be the rule on this issue.

January 20, 2008 12:23 PM

While I think it is an inapropriate appointment personally it won't affect my life or ministry one iota. I think actually that we lost on this one because Doug would be more effective as a DS in Ohio than a treasurer in Spfld. We got weaker as a movement through this appointment.

Now in the system that we have of guys moving up the ladder perhaps one day Doug will have more influence and help chart new direction but GW was pretty sharp all those years as the General Secretary but he did not have the impact he is having now because those positions just don't carry that clout.

January 20, 2008 12:50 PM

Confident leaders bring strong, gifted leaders around them. The fact that GW is bringing these guys on board is evidence that he will utilize their gifts and listen to their voice. I'm sure Doug Clay and Bob Cook both asked GW if their contributions would be welcomed--and if not, they would have stayed in OH and CO. I think the treasurer role in essence is the Chief Operations Officer--lots could be done in this role to build effective systems that support the work of churches and parachurch ministies.

January 20, 2008 1:02 PM

George,

We have only met a couple times over the years. I have not felt the need to comment on this blog over these past months, but something was said that has weighed on my spirit these past few days

An "anonymous" person stating "Maybe with all of your anger Mr. GPW you should be voted out of your position.(11:09 AM)"

This kind of statment IS NOT an opion. At best it is embarasingly cutting. I do not know what one calls wishing something so painful on another miniter. I guess it is the oppositte of blessing them in a sense. Slander on the wings of opinion is cowardly and there is no honor before the Lord in participating in it.

So be blessed freind and keep your head up. Class seems to be a dying bread in these types of internet atmosphers. You are appreciated!

January 20, 2008 1:45 PM

I must say that news of Doug Clay being elected Treasurer of the AG was a bit of a shock to me. The shock came not because of Doug, but because I figured it would take a little while to find someone to fill a spot as specialized as that one.

I went to school with Doug and have always found him to be a gracious individual, and one who has been given many opportunities for leadership in his life. To my knowledge, he has handled each of these with a great deal of character. So, to Doug I say, "Congratulations."

Now, on to the bigger question: "What exactly does the treasurer do?" I find it interesting that there is so much frothing at the mouth about this issue when I would be quite surprised if most posting here are familiar with the job description, and Doug's qualifications in relationship to that job description.

My only concern is that with the growth of the financial complexities of the AG, I am concerned that we put a pastor in a position that might require someone with significant financial management training. But, then I don't really know the job. What I do know is that Christian organizations (the AG included) have a long history of promoting their brightest young leaders into positions beyond their expertise.

I would think that as smart a man as George Wood is, that he is quite capable of matching a person to a job description. Let's give the guy and his team the benefit of the doubt here.

As for the nepotism comments, will someone please point me to the biblical edict that prohibits the selection of a well-qualified relative to a position of leadership on your team? If this were true, half of the strongest ministry teams (small church, medium church, and large church) in the country would be in trouble.

Finally, for what it's worth, I vote that "anonymous" postings not be permitted on this blog. It took me far too long to figure out who is posting.

January 20, 2008 1:48 PM

Here. My posting is not anonymous now. Feel better?:)

January 20, 2008 1:52 PM

George O. Wood has worked hard to listen to the many various groups within the AG especially younger pastors in our fellowship. We saw that by Dr. Wood inviting all the pastors who started this blog to meet with him in Springfield.

Did you also know that Dr. Wood chose a 33 year old pastor to serve as his administrator in Springfield? That's a first!

Maybe we should look at the bigger picture and recognize we have a Superintendent who is doing more than listening, he's taking action and surrounding himself with new people, new voices, and leading this fellowship forward! Doug Clay is going to be a great asset to the Executive Team in Springfield.

January 20, 2008 1:52 PM

What a privilege it is to have our dialogue, and freedom to do so, concerning matters of such importance as the direction of a movement intended to utilize the power of the Holy Spirit to reach as many people with the love of Christ as possible. The Assemblies of God has a rich history of doing just that. Yet, like any human institution, she has not been immune from engaging in self-destructive behavior. However, I would agree with those who urge CIVIL discourse in such a blogosphere of fellow ministers of that gospel.

That being said – and yes, I feel better now, as catharsis is apparently a portion of the purpose of this blog – the issue is not one of politics, nor of pundits, but of persons.

In my interactions with George Wood, John Palmer, and Doug Clay, I can honestly say that there is a trifecta of connected cords. Each man has sterling character – we ought to be careful not to impugn by insinuation that which we have not observed firsthand. The second quality is a genuine affability. These three men are a joy to be around, and they consistently make the individuals with which they spend time know that they are valued and loved. The third quality is that of a passion for the church – the hope of the world expressed in the form of the Bride of Christ. And, while some wish to pick her scabs, these men have demonstrated over time a love for the bride, hope for her healing, and a passion for her expression of the bridegroom’s love in a lost world.

So, what issues remain? Nepotism? Only if such creates a blockade of opinion expressed in corporate direction. Since there are other executives present aside from the brothers-in-law, this seems to be a consideration, but not a blanket disqualification for service. I’m thinking they may have discussed this, but frankly, if they didn’t, is it my business. Only if I stand in “supervision†over them. The office carries with it inherent rights – and the right of appointment until the next election is such a right.

Ah, the real rub – we all want a “democratic process.†Perhaps we have touted democracy in the A/G for too long. That may disturb some – do you hear that release of the air on the vacuum pack of that can of worms – yet, while valued, can we at least agree that democratic process should not be the HIGHEST value of the A/G and her leadership.

Job description? That would have been nice to see in ANY of our electoral decisions on any level above the local pastor. We don’t really do this well in any area of our district and national leadership – so why ask, after the fact, for a job description just because we don’t like the decision? Maybe we should focus our energies on changing the process rather than challenging the persons. But I, for one, know that I've never felt "qualified" for anything to which God has called me - He usually doesn't call the qualified, He qualifies the called.

But let’s engage that for just a moment. I do not pretend to know what the job description is for the Treasurer, but I imagine it is NOT to be the sole attendant to the funds of the A/G. It is a position that requires leading a TEAM of people who are qualified to do this. In the area of team building and leadership we need to look no further than the previous post of the man who worked with Doug in Ohio – Rod Iberg. A humble and yet brilliant man (no, I’m no longer in the Ohio District, so I’m not expecting any remuneration for the statement :-) – his words are telling as he frames himself as one who “stands to lose as much as anyone in this†– leadership generates loyalty. Doug has proven himself a leader and a team player – qualities that will surely be an addition to the team in Springfield.

Bitter grapes make sour wine. Real issues may be addressed, but only in terms of future policy. The decision has been made. Personally, I think it is a good one. I can understand if those looking in from outside the spectrum of relationship may feel otherwise. Just do this pastor a favor – and perhaps yourself – be a problem solver, not a mudslinger. The world will not change because we find something wrong – it will change when we find something right. May the search for greater ideas be the blessing on this blog – for the sake of the King and His Kingdom.
-- Joy! Dan Lumadue

January 20, 2008 2:54 PM

"Anonymous (January 19, 2008 4:33 PM)said...

WHEN DO YOU GUYS HAVE TIME TO WRITE SERMONS..."

Haven't you heard? Most pastors purchase their sermons from others these days.

January 20, 2008 6:35 PM

Mr Hybel...do you get yours from Rev Hybels?

January 20, 2008 6:43 PM

Sweet Jesus, the Giants are in the Super Bowl!!!!!!!!

January 20, 2008 7:17 PM

Hey George...how did the vote go?

January 20, 2008 9:32 PM

I heard that both Doug Clay and John Palmer were on the grassy knoll.

Who is the EP over Area 51?

January 20, 2008 9:36 PM

Doug Clay is of course:)

January 20, 2008 9:48 PM

I'm glad Clay was appointed. From everything i have heard about they guy, the AG is going to benefit. As far as the specific position...what does it really matter....he is in the leadership pipeline.

I am sure he will eventually lead the show...maybe take over for Wood. That would be my guess...

The question of bringing in management professionals to Mecca is seperate blog unto itself. The AG WOULD benefit from using Christians with business/secular degrees in the organizational side of the organization.

And yet...how much bureaucracy do we really need to continue to support? I wish we took a cue from the Acts 29 church planting network that Mark Driscoll helped start, [http://www.acts29network.org/about/welcome/]....tithe from member churches goes to a church planting fund to support church plants until they are sovereign...and all new church plants eventually tithe to it.

WHAT WE NEED TO REVITALIZE OUR MOVEMENT IS A SERIOUS PUSH TO PLANT CHURCHES. I know the Ohio District was big on church planting.

January 21, 2008 2:13 AM

posting blind...sorry if it is repeated...

George Wood asked Doug to be come treasurer not for financial reasons per se but because of his leadership in establishing a solid mentoring program in the Ohio district for which Dr Wood wants to establish on a national level.

Dr Wood was here in Arizona this weekend and we were at a special dinner for pastors and leaders in the north part of the state and heard him talk about it.

I think it is great!

January 21, 2008 3:12 AM

New Topics:
1. The role of the General Council--what do you want/need/expect from the GC? What changes would you recommend to Dr. Wood and his able team?
2. Same for the District Council.
3. How could we move to internet voting before the next General Council? Special action of the EP/GP/BofA?
4. Should we have a standardized process and coursework prescribed for all new licensees? No pastor left behind?
5. Should we require sustainment training every year for each credentialed minister? If so, what might it look like?
6. Any suggestions to improve the format of General Councils? Anyway to take care of the voting on whether BGMC is going to be "a" or "the" Children's arm of DFM or WM or whatever we changed the name to at some past General Council?
7. Is the KJV the only/best/most authorative translation of the Bible? Should we go back to hymns with a Western European origin in our worship services? Is there any acceptable time that pastors can take off their ties (showering, in bed, while mixed bathing/swimming)?

January 21, 2008 9:03 AM

Anonymous January 20, 2008 9:32 PM:

Thank you for asking about my vote! I received 55 out of 66 votes cast, or 84%. To tell you the truth, waiting for that vote was one of the most nervewracking things I've ever experienced.

George

January 21, 2008 9:06 AM

To George P. Wood,

Congratulations!

Psalms 91:15

January 21, 2008 10:05 AM

Congrats George. I was praying for you and I'm thrilled for you. I'm hope that is ok even though this is anonymous:)

January 21, 2008 10:06 AM

It seems like a political step toward the General Sup's office to me. As an Ohian, I feel a little burned. It looks like Ohio was just a notch in the belt for Doug. He is a great leader, but it feels like he is taking the political fast track and not leading! We'll see...

January 21, 2008 12:02 PM

Congratulations George!

Now we'll pray you continue to have wisdom as you work to turn that church around. Looking forward to hearing praise reports in the future.

Marvin J. Miller
mjmiller@palmviewchristian.org

January 21, 2008 12:29 PM

Business Columnist Harvey Mackay's recently reviewed Keith MacFarland's new business book "The Breakthrough Company" It has some good lessons that might apply to churches (and the AG) as well. After surveying top successful companies, this is what was discovered.

1)Discover profitable niches where others see only challenges.

2)Focus on building an organization where you can hire ordinary people who can do extraordinary things.
3) Spend less time worrying about corporate culture than they do corporate character. You can't fake character.

4)Point to difficult times as the periods when their organizations learned the most and made the most progress.

5)Surround yourself with insultants. You must always have people who question your ways of doing business.

6)If everyone in the organization is taught to view their own departmental activities as always secondary to the needs of the customer, then employees will consider the customer their top priority."

7) Shift from commander to coach. Leaders must adapt their skill sets to begin coaching and developing new capabilities throughout the organization.

8) Encourage chaotic communication. You need to have an open-door policy. Everyone in an organization should be encouraged to talk to anyone at any time.

Of these, #5 is probably the hardest, at least for me. I don't take criticism to well.

Looking at it, seems to me that Springfield's doing a pretty darn good job...

Happy Reading...

Marvin J. Miller
mjmiller@palmviewchristian.org

January 21, 2008 12:53 PM

What if we actually hired someone who specialized in finance to run the finances of the AG? It is a multi-million dollar corporation and we bring in a pastor...I think nepotism is an accurate assumption!

January 21, 2008 12:57 PM

AG Minister in Ohio:

I am intrigued by your suggestion about hiring a finance person to run the AG's finances. I think there is merit to trusting the finances of the movement to a duly qualified layperson. In the long term, this would require a change in our bylaws, I think. So perhaps you could sponsor a resolution at the 2009 General Council! In the short term, I think it's a good idea to put good leaders to work at the national level.

Ohio's loss is, for the time being anyway, the national movement's gain!

George

January 21, 2008 1:11 PM

How is it nepotism if Dr. Wood was the one who asked him to come onboard? Was Doug Clay separated at birth and raised by she-wolves or something?

As far as financial qualifications, wasn't Brother Bridges a District Sup before his election to GT? Wait a minute, isn't Doug Clay a District Sup (a very successful one at that)?

As far as Brother Clay's motives, I guess God isn't his judge anymore or rewarder for proving himself at the district level. An anonymous blogger is.

priceless...

January 21, 2008 1:47 PM

Good afternoon, on Martin Luther King Day. Today, indeed, is one in which we recognize the contributions of minorities to the mosaic of our nation. Also, within the Assemblies of God, 34% of our adherents are comprised of ethnic minorities. Thanks be to God for the rich diversity of this church!

Let me also congratulate my son, George Paul, on his election to an indefinite term as pastor. He has worked and prayed hard this past year, and the results show.

I also want to say that I am delighted Doug Clay is coming as general treasurer. There are certainly many in our AG Family that could have filled that role admirably, but I believe Doug brings to this responsibility tremendous assets to help us with national leadership matters beyond the day to day administration of the Treasury.

We have extremely competent people in our accounting (CPAs, etc.) and technology areas, so it is not necessary for a general treasurer to sit behind a desk and pour over financial statements all day. We have great people who manage and account for the money. What is needed from the general treasurer is an ability to manage and lead people in the division.

But, beyond that, I feel that every executive officer of the General Council should be looked upon for their spiritual leadership. Effectively, as a team, we are the spiritual elders for the Assemblies of God. I told Doug that I want him to have a wider berth of ministry beyond that of the finances of the General Council. Doug is a proven and younger innovative, Godly, and resourceful leader.

There is a wonderful team in place. All ministry flows out of relationship. I'm thrilled that all of us here in leadership -- Alton Garrison, John Palmer, James Bridges, John Bueno, Zollie Smith -- and now, Doug Clay -- are friends. I believe we have a chance to replicate what we read about in Acts 13:1-2 -- that even as there was a team of leaders in the Antioch church, so it will be here at the General Council as well.

We have a team that complements one another, that brings Godliness, spiritual energy, and innovation to our AG family.

I also want to say a word about Doug and John being brothers-in-law, since that was discussed on the blog.

John had no knowledge in advance that Doug was being considered. His first knowledge came in the EP meeting along with everyone else. Also, I did not feel it fair to exclude Doug from that position because he had a brother-in-law that was in executive office. Doug has always stood on his own two feet, and I don't think it's right that we discriminate for or against a person because of their family ties. We owe it to each person to assess their gifts and callings on an individual basis. Neither Doug nor John have ever leveraged off one another for anything in ministry -- what they have gained comes as a result of their own character and life.

Finally, I just want to say a word again about "tone." I realize that there is cynicism and suspicion among some in our ranks. I understand that. But, I think also we need to bring Biblical values to our attitudes and I do not sense from Scripture that cynicism is a fruit of the Spirit.

Is it possible for us to discuss differences and issues with charity toward one another?

I repeat what I said in earlier posts and have stated publicly a number of times. Never from me will there be retaliation to anyone for an opinion expressed. I believe the Assemblies of God, as a family, should be a place where we can speak to one another the truths we hold in love. We may not always agree with one another -- and that's okay. We are brothers and sisters in Christ. Civility and graciousness should be a part of word and deed.

In the next couple of weeks, credentialed ministers will be receiving a short 100 page book from me with your Ministers Letter. I will, through that book, talk with you about the enduring core values that are on my heart as we seek to serve Christ's cause with effectiveness and excellence. I hope you will have a chance to read it. Maybe there could even be a discussion about it on this or another blog and we can continue to benefit from dialog with one another. Blessings!

George O. Wood

January 21, 2008 2:04 PM

Thanks Bro Wood. Sometimes passions get's misplaced but I believe everyone on here wants the best for the A/G. Thanks for leading us.

January 21, 2008 7:52 PM

Thanks Dr. Wood for stopping by to calm down the natives...

Lead us back to a genuine move of the Holy Spirit!

January 21, 2008 7:57 PM

Oops!

rather lead us forward into a fresh move of the Holy Spirit!

January 21, 2008 7:58 PM

Reading Dr. Woods comments, hearing him speak a time or two, makes me want to consider pursuing ministry as a pastor in the A/G. He is definitely the chosen leader not just by man, but by God for this season. I am so impressed. He certainly is on my prayer list, and I pray his passion spreads.

Steve
Springfield, MO

January 22, 2008 4:57 AM

Dr. Wood,
Thanks for speaking to the situation. I think the cynic in all of us can get ahead of rationally approaching the situation.

While I remain undecided on how I feel about this addition (I feel that AG politics is being played), I trust you and your leadership. Thanks!

January 22, 2008 6:42 AM

It is easy to speak anonymously when all you are doing is speculating. After Dr. Wood's comment there is no speculation left, therefore no cynical, anonymous posts. Praise God!

Don't forget God's hand in the election of leaders and the wisdom of our leaders already in place - its a privilege to serve under and be equipped by them.

It is OK to not agree with everything someone does, but we have to trust that God knows what he is doing when he picks leaders and that our leadership is hearing him when they cast the vote.

And please... post your name and believe in what your saying.

January 22, 2008 9:13 AM

Dr. Wood,

Thank You

January 22, 2008 10:46 AM

Brother Wood and others, here is the problem I alongwith some ministers from Ohio may be having with the appointment: It "appears" to be "another rung on the ladder" move on a personal level, for Doug Clay and a politically correct move for the fellowship.
Rev. Clay hasn't even been in the Ohio DS role four years. Before that his tenure at the church in Toledo wasn't very long... preceded by a very short term in the National Youth Office, preceded by a short stint in the DYD's role, etc. Doug told us less that six months ago the General Secretary's role (which has a very similiar skill set of that of the General Treasurer...i.e. many Districts have a Secretary/Treasurer) was not in his skill set and nothing excited him more than to be in Ohio and produce his "Monday Motivator" and be the "Teaching Pastor" for the Ohio District. John Palmer's election happened on some level or another because Doug was not in the mix. (Why the two top positions are elected from the entire body and subordinate roles must have 15 votes from the GPs for nomination is beyond me. Did Beth Grant after receiving the third highest vote count in the election for the Assistant General Superintendent reject consideration for General Secretary? If she was not considered by the GPs that was an atrocity on our fellowships part. But that is another subject.)
One of our ministers asked asked one of the National ELT, "What are Doug's qualifications for being General Treasurer?" The response he received was, "He doesn't need to know anything about finances we have bigger plans." AG, if you want Doug to have a mentoring role, he'll do a great job, but just create the position for him to do that in an unencumbered fashion. So my question is,
"Have we just elected a figurehead to a position that you consider obsolete to begin with?"

January 22, 2008 11:05 AM

Wow, Great Points/Questions!

January 22, 2008 11:43 AM

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January 22, 2008 11:44 AM

It seems to me that the "good old boy" network is still alive and well for the A/G.

Dr. Wood - if read this, this looks horrible! That's where the outrage comes from. Yes, there is some cynicism, but is it unfounded?

I felt there was so much promise for the A/G open on Dr. Wood's election, but that hope is waning - at least for this long-time minister.

January 22, 2008 12:57 PM

Trust me...Doug's been "climbing" that ladder since he first got to Springfield long ago. This should not be a surprise and it is disconcerting to many in the fellowship. Being concerned or disagreeing does not make one a cynic. Perhaps in this case it makes one wise!!

January 22, 2008 1:02 PM

to anonymous January 22, 2008 11:05 AM:

I understand your concerns. I do. At the same time I do believe ONE of the roles Dr Wood is serving in his position as GS is transitional - helping the AG find a new GS to lead the movement into the future.

Doug Clay could be that future....

January 22, 2008 1:12 PM

The voting members select the next GS - not just Dr. Wood! Let us decide!!! This cronyism must STOP!!!

January 22, 2008 1:14 PM

Hey everyone...the can called and it wants its worms back!

Talk about opening a can of worms...

January 22, 2008 1:20 PM

I guess what bothers me is the timing. We just had GC a few months ago. The body should have decided this. It seems that an officer held off on retiring so they could appoint someone to the position, one that in my memory has never been more controversial.

January 22, 2008 1:22 PM

Anonymous January 22, 2008 1:14 PM:

The General Council elected James Bridges as General Treasurer at its last meeting. It also elected the Executive Leadership Team and the Executive Presbytery at its last meeting. According to our Constitution and Bylaws, in the the case of a vacancy in the executive leadership team, the Executive Presbytery has the power to elect someone to fill out the vacant term of office. I'm not sure how it's cronyism for the people whom we elected at our last General Council to do what our Constitution and Bylaws requires them to do.

George

January 22, 2008 1:54 PM

Hopefully it was all above board and not just a matter of not wanting 3 officers retiring at the same council.

January 22, 2008 2:04 PM

George P.,
Your intent is correct, however, to be exact, James Bridges was not elected at the last Council. He was last re-elected in Denver, in '05.
The problem that people are having across the fellowship is that from the General Secretary's role to now the General Treasurer, seemingly there were politics involved. Even the most naive person has to concede this point.
Funny/Sad story: There is a former member of Senator John Ashcroft's staff that now works for HQ. When he left Senator Ashcroft's office Mr. Ashcroft allegedly said, "Now you are going to work with the real politicians."

January 22, 2008 2:07 PM

OUCH!!

January 22, 2008 2:14 PM

So much stupidity, so little time.

Congrats George P. on your re-election. I have been through that and know how crazy it is. I also want to thank you for your tremendous thoughts and comments on this blog as well as your leadership. From one young minister to another, thanks.

My question to everyone who has such huge questions are: 1)What would you have done had Doug Clay been elected, as well as John Palmer? Who would you blame the nepotism on there? 2) Do any of you read the Constitution and Bylaws of our fellowship before you start ranting? So many of you have accused the ELT of inappropriate activities, when all they were doing was following the rules. If you have a problem, write an amendment and get it changed.

I don't know anything about Doug Clay, but I trust the leadership that I elected and that God put in place to make righteous decisions. But I forgot that all of you could do better...

January 22, 2008 2:28 PM

Anonymous January 22, 2008 2:07 PM:

Thank you for the correction on James Bridges' election!

When you say, "there were politics involved," what does that mean to you? Are you suggesting that neither Palmer nor Clay are qualified for office, but they were elected anyway, because there were politics involved? Or are you suggesting that they are qualified for office, but they were elected not on the basis of those qualifications but only on the basis of politics? You'll have to pardon my naivete, but I really don't understand which of these two options you're trying to imply about Palmer and Clay's elections.

Second, am I the only person who is disturbed by an anonymous posting sharing an alleged quotation about an unnamed former Ashcroft staffer who currently works at HQ--and more than that, citing this as proof of "politics" as HQ. Unless sourced, isn't that outright gossip?

George

January 22, 2008 2:32 PM

It's perfectly normal (although I wish it weren't) for ministers to say what is considered the right thing (even when it might not be their true feelings) when they do not get a position they wanted and have to stay where they are. Of course Doug said he was perfectly happy to stay in OH and do his thing there. What else is he supposed to say that will not further alienate the people in OH who might have been upset that he let his name run? Not that he doesn't love OH, but I'm sure he was greatly anticipating the possibility of Springfield.

A minister in my district was convinced he was going to to be voted in to a new position at GC and his name in fact was up for election. But he did not receive the vote. It was well known among anybody who knows anything on the inside loop of our district that before GC that he and his wife couldn't want to get out of here and move to Springfield fast enough. I'm sure they might have even already had a box or two packed, they were anticipating it so much. He wasn't voted in, and what did they say afterwards to people in the district? "We're just so grateful to the Lord that we don't have to move. We are relieved and are just so thankful the vote went the way it did."

The truth is, everyone who is close to them knows, they weren't happy, they were devastated. They wanted desperately to move. But what were they supposed to say?

Of course Doug had to say something and he did what all of us have been taught to do - concede graciously.

January 22, 2008 2:34 PM

Come on GPW...even you would have to admit that there are politics involved on the local, district and national levels. I"m sure that there may just be some politics involved in some way in your church. You did just have an "election" and I'm sure that some of your folks talked abut it together and they all voted...politics. That's not outrageous to believe that he or any number of people would make that statement. Let's not be so hyper-sensitive.

January 22, 2008 2:36 PM

With coach Rodriquez taking over in Ann Arbor it's a good time to get out of Ohio.

January 22, 2008 2:40 PM

Anonymous:

I agree. There's a political angle in every election to church leadership. I guess I wrongly infered that you thought this was somehow wrong or underhanded. If politics touches everything we do, and if it's as benign as your new post seems to suggest, then why bring it up at all?

But since you do bring it up, you seem to suggest that there is something wrong or underhanded with the elections of Palmer and Clay. If that is in fact the case, I want you to be very clear on what precisely was wrong or underhanded. That's all.

George

January 22, 2008 2:46 PM

Sorry, Abe! I confused your most recent post with Anonymous's previous post. My bad. Please re-interpret the wording of my post accordingly. If, as you suggest, politics is omnipresent, it is benign. But Anonymous seems to imply that the presence of politics in the election of church leader's is sinister. I would like to hear from him what he thinks is sinister in this particular case. To be even more specific, does he think Palmer and Clay were qualified for their posts? If not, why not?

January 22, 2008 2:48 PM

i met doug when i was a senior in high school and he was a rookie yp in cincinnati. the truth is doug has always used connections well. but connections only get you the opportunity. ive watched doug take countless opportunities and he hits a home runs every time. i could be jealous or cynical or i can choose to get behind him and cheer on a champion. way to go dougger!

January 22, 2008 2:49 PM

Alright...everybody has had their say. Now that the dust has settled...let us continue to pray for our national leadership. Politics is apart of every institution on the face of the planet...from the Vatican to the local restaurant. It is how the world works...why are we so surprised?

We need to be faithful to continue to pray for our leadership. God doesn't give us any wiggle room there...

And..."Beaty"...you dont need to praise anyone for their insights or comments. What are you trying to get elected to?

January 22, 2008 2:53 PM

GPW...no problem. Let me ask you. Is it ok for some of us to actually be able to disagree with this and have some concerns without being sinister? The point of some of our concerns is exactly what has happened on here. Distractions...members of the Ohio district feeling cheated...feeling nothing has changed in Springfield. Some may actually know John or Doug better than others and may have legitimate concerns based on their understanding of them. That's not sinister. It's disturbing that some take any questions or disagreement as ungodly or not supporting leadership. If we don't want things this way then we should change the governmental set-up of the AG. But we have a politial set-up in our government of the AG and as long as we have that we are going to have these kinds of discussions and disagreements.

I agree that some have gone over the top in their verbage. At the same time some have been overly sensitive and have over reacted back. I don't judge anyone on here whether anonymous or not because I think I can learn from everyone.

January 22, 2008 2:56 PM

Abe:

"Is it ok for some of us to actually be able to disagree with this and have some concerns without being sinister?"

Yes, of course!

Unfortunately, the two dominant criticisms of Doug Clay's election have been that it was nepotistic and political. Would you agree with me that these two criticisms seem to imply something sinister, underhanded, or wrong about Clay's election?

That's why I responded so strongly to people who voiced these criticisms (too strongly and with too much anger, in several instances, for which I have apologized).

George

January 22, 2008 3:10 PM

GPW - I disagree that if I say something is political that I'm saying that it is sinister too. Again...it is a political system where a lot of different sides of politics get played. Politics get played in Springfield brother. I've lived there and I've experienced it there and was just there in the last few months and saw some of it in action. Nothing anyone can say will convince me oth