Good stuff! Lee is incredible. I'd like to see him have a bigger voice in our movement!
January 3, 2008 6:43 AM
Anonymous said...
I'd like to hear what Lee has to say about Discipleship. Having known a few who have served on his staff and the fact that they are highly seeker sensitive with limited effort in discipleship I'd be curious to know how that all plays out long-term in a church.
So refreshing to hear someone report that the key to his ministry success is just being “authentic.†I especially appreciated Lee’s comment that young people are tired of leaders assuming some persona that is not truly their own. Sharing his vulnerability and his need to seek assistance at one point to bring his marriage back into balance—just to allow us to hear the struggle of his own journey—with honesty…What a treasure! Perhaps this is the essence of “discipleshipâ€--gathering a group like Jesus did—doing life with them (shortcomings and all) and teaching them to follow the Spirit in the reality of their own lives: 16 year olds getting driver’s licenses, middle-agers approaching their 50th birthday, a church leader asking his city leaders if they have any poor people the church could assist…sounds like discipleship to me! Jesus thought so—"Do you want to stand out? Then step down. Be a servant. If you puff yourself up, you'll get the wind knocked out of you. But if you're content to simply be yourself, your life will count for plenty.†(Matt. 23:11-12)
January 3, 2008 9:10 AM
Anonymous said...
In regard to authenticity, this is a quote from page 174 of our flagship text book "The Pentecostal Pastor":
"Let's talk about the business suit,because it is the central garment that will most likely influence any viewer's judgment of the wearer.The suit establishes authority,credibility,and likability-qualities important to any public ministry. The darker the suit, the more authority it tends to convey. A black suit is the most authoritative but should be worn only by funeral directors or preachers. The most authoritative pattern is the pinstripe.Suits that give you the most credibility with middle-class people are dark blue and dark gray solids and pinstripes of both colors.The most accepted suit is solid navy, which should be in every person's wardrobe. If you are weak on projecting authority, it is excellent"
There is some more compelling reading material in other parts of this chapter concerning the minister's choice of hairstyle and his choice of the tie:
"Remember men,the tie is the single most important indicator of who you are. Buy the best tie you can. Wear a moderate hairstyle (or a quality hairpiece,my addition) not too long, not too greasy, or too kooky, and always make sure that your hair is well-combed....Never,never...truly I say unto thee, never wear a short-sleeve shirt for any ministry...If you have a protruding tummy, never wear your slacks or pants under it? and most insightful of all...never,never, never wear white socks with your suit!!!
Had to laugh at anonymous 12:25. As I read that, I looked down at my jeans and my fleece pullover and had a good laugh. And get this, I had a meeting today too!
I remember at NCBC, now NCU, when I was there 15 years ago, it was still hair above the collar, slacks and shirts for the guys and skirts or dresses for the girls. No facial hair allowed. Oh how times have changed. :)
It's interesting and encouraging that discipleship keeps coming up on this blog. Rather than just focusing on methodology we would do well to ask what sort of disciples we are producing?
Anonymous 7:03 am said....
"they are highly seeker sensitive with limited effort in discipleship..."
This is probably partially true, although, I would submit that every church is making disciples. The question again is, what kind of disciples?
If you remember Jesus said n Matthew 23:15...
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves."
What I believe is happening is that we spend to much time on the minor things (what we wear to church and if we have a sweet coffee shop) and to little time on the major things (teaching and preaching the Word, doctrine and how to live a holy life etc.).
As long as we focus on the superficial and neglect the deeper disciplines, we will only be producing immature disciples.
Eugene Peterson from “The Jesus Way: A Conversation on the Ways that Jesus is the Way.â€
“My concern is provoked by the observation that so many who understand themselves to be followers of Jesus, without hesitation, and apparently without thinking, embrace the ways and means of the culture as they go about their daily living ‘in Jesus name.’ But the ways that dominate our culture have been developed either in ignorance or in defiance of the ways that Jesus uses to lead us as we walk the streets and alleys, hike the trails, and drive roads in this God-created, God-saved, God-blessed, God-ruled world in which we find ourselves. They seem to suppose that ‘getting on in the world’ means getting on in the world on the world’s terms, and that the ways of Jesus are useful only in a compartmentalized area of life labeled ‘religious.’
Here is a text, words spoken by Jesus, that keeps this in clear focus: ‘I am the way, and the truth, and the life’ (John 14:6). The Jesus way wedded to the Jesus truth brings about the Jesus life. We can’t proclaim the Jesus truth but then do it any old way we like. Nor can we follow the Jesus way without speaking the Jesus truth.
In this matter of ways, the how of following Jesus and taking up with the world cannot be depersonalized by reduction into a how-to formula. We are involved in a highly personal, interrelational, dynamic way of life consisting of many elements—emotions and ideas, weather and work, friends and enemies, seductions and illusions, legislation and elections—that are constantly being rearranged, always in flux, and always in relation to our very personal and holy God and our very personal (but not so holy!) brothers and sisters.
To take a person trained in ways and means that are custom-formulated to fit into the world’s ways and then place that person in the worshiping, evangelizing, witnessing, reconciling, peace-making, justice-advocating people of God is equivalent to putting an adolescent whose sole qualification consists of a fascination with speed, the ability to step on the accelerator, and expertise in operating the radio, behind the wheel of a brand-new Porsche.
The ways and means promoted and practiced in the world are a systematic attempt to substitute human sovereignty for God’s rule. The world as such has no interest in following the crucified King. Not that there isn’t plenty of lip-service offered along the way across a spectrum ranging from presidents to pastors. But when it comes down to an actual way of life, most of the language turns out to be court protocol—nothing to do with the way we are actually to order our affairs.
What I hope to call attention to is the undiscriminating way in which so many of us embrace and adopt the very ways and means that Jesus rejected, taking up with the world in ways suggested by the promises of the devil: assurances of power and influence, domination and success. Every such practice diverts energy from the community of Jesus, blurs the distinctiveness of the way of Jesus, and (whether intentional or not, usually not) insinuates a defiant element of resistance to the prayers of millions of Christians who pray daily, ‘Thy kingdom come.’â€
January 5, 2008 5:23 AM
Anonymous said...
My wife tried to get a job at his church, one for which she was perfectly qualified for and was immediately turned down...she wasn't "cool" enough for the supposed "blue jeans" church.
January 5, 2008 12:58 PM
Despite having a fairly well connected Dad, I'm generally clueless about emerging churches in the Assemblies of God. How clueless? I had never heard of Lee McFarland or Radiant Church in Surprise, Arizona, until I met him at the Bloggers Lunch sponsored by AGTS and North Central during the 2007 General Council. My loss. Lee's a great guy, and in this interview with our General Superintindent, he says a lot of important things about a lot of important subjects. Lee taught me two important lessons in this interview: (1) How you lead (especially how you preach) has got to be authentic. (2) You've got to be honest about your struggles if you want to lead the members of your congregation through theirs. How about you? What did you learn?
posted by George P. Wood at 7:48 PM on Jan 2, 2008
Mowser
"Lee McFarland Interview"
8 Comments -
Good stuff! Lee is incredible. I'd like to see him have a bigger voice in our movement!
January 3, 2008 6:43 AM
I'd like to hear what Lee has to say about Discipleship. Having known a few who have served on his staff and the fact that they are highly seeker sensitive with limited effort in discipleship I'd be curious to know how that all plays out long-term in a church.
January 3, 2008 7:03 AM
So refreshing to hear someone report that the key to his ministry success is just being “authentic.†I especially appreciated Lee’s comment that young people are tired of leaders assuming some persona that is not truly their own. Sharing his vulnerability and his need to seek assistance at one point to bring his marriage back into balance—just to allow us to hear the struggle of his own journey—with honesty…What a treasure! Perhaps this is the essence of “discipleshipâ€--gathering a group like Jesus did—doing life with them (shortcomings and all) and teaching them to follow the Spirit in the reality of their own lives: 16 year olds getting driver’s licenses, middle-agers approaching their 50th birthday, a church leader asking his city leaders if they have any poor people the church could assist…sounds like discipleship to me! Jesus thought so—"Do you want to stand out? Then step down. Be a servant. If you puff yourself up, you'll get the wind knocked out of you. But if you're content to simply be yourself, your life will count for plenty.†(Matt. 23:11-12)
January 3, 2008 9:10 AM
In regard to authenticity, this is a quote from page 174 of our flagship text book "The Pentecostal Pastor":
"Let's talk about the business suit,because it is the central garment that will most likely influence any viewer's judgment of the wearer.The suit establishes authority,credibility,and likability-qualities important to any public ministry. The darker the suit, the more authority it tends to convey. A black suit is the most authoritative but should be worn only by funeral directors or preachers. The most authoritative pattern is the pinstripe.Suits that give you the most credibility with middle-class people are dark blue and dark gray solids and pinstripes of both colors.The most accepted suit is solid navy, which should be in every person's wardrobe. If you are weak on projecting authority, it is excellent"
There is some more compelling reading material in other parts of this chapter concerning the minister's choice of hairstyle and his choice of the tie:
"Remember men,the tie is the single most important indicator of who you are. Buy the best tie you can. Wear a moderate hairstyle (or a quality hairpiece,my addition) not too long, not too greasy, or too kooky, and always make sure that your hair is well-combed....Never,never...truly I say unto thee, never wear a short-sleeve shirt for any ministry...If you have a protruding tummy, never wear your slacks or pants under it? and most insightful of all...never,never, never wear white socks with your suit!!!
January 3, 2008 12:25 PM
Had to laugh at anonymous 12:25. As I read that, I looked down at my jeans and my fleece pullover and had a good laugh. And get this, I had a meeting today too!
I remember at NCBC, now NCU, when I was there 15 years ago, it was still hair above the collar, slacks and shirts for the guys and skirts or dresses for the girls. No facial hair allowed. Oh how times have changed. :)
Steve...I agree.
January 3, 2008 1:04 PM
It's interesting and encouraging that discipleship keeps coming up on this blog. Rather than just focusing on methodology we would do well to ask what sort of disciples we are producing?
Anonymous 7:03 am said....
"they are highly seeker sensitive with limited effort in discipleship..."
This is probably partially true, although, I would submit that every church is making disciples. The question again is, what kind of disciples?
If you remember Jesus said n Matthew 23:15...
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves."
What I believe is happening is that we spend to much time on the minor things (what we wear to church and if we have a sweet coffee shop) and to little time on the major things (teaching and preaching the Word, doctrine and how to live a holy life etc.).
As long as we focus on the superficial and neglect the deeper disciplines, we will only be producing immature disciples.
January 4, 2008 8:34 AM
Eugene Peterson from “The Jesus Way: A Conversation on the Ways that Jesus is the Way.â€
“My concern is provoked by the observation that so many who understand themselves to be followers of Jesus, without hesitation, and apparently without thinking, embrace the ways and means of the culture as they go about their daily living ‘in Jesus name.’ But the ways that dominate our culture have been developed either in ignorance or in defiance of the ways that Jesus uses to lead us as we walk the streets and alleys, hike the trails, and drive roads in this God-created, God-saved, God-blessed, God-ruled world in which we find ourselves. They seem to suppose that ‘getting on in the world’ means getting on in the world on the world’s terms, and that the ways of Jesus are useful only in a compartmentalized area of life labeled ‘religious.’
Here is a text, words spoken by Jesus, that keeps this in clear focus: ‘I am the way, and the truth, and the life’ (John 14:6). The Jesus way wedded to the Jesus truth brings about the Jesus life. We can’t proclaim the Jesus truth but then do it any old way we like. Nor can we follow the Jesus way without speaking the Jesus truth.
In this matter of ways, the how of following Jesus and taking up with the world cannot be depersonalized by reduction into a how-to formula. We are involved in a highly personal, interrelational, dynamic way of life consisting of many elements—emotions and ideas, weather and work, friends and enemies, seductions and illusions, legislation and elections—that are constantly being rearranged, always in flux, and always in relation to our very personal and holy God and our very personal (but not so holy!) brothers and sisters.
To take a person trained in ways and means that are custom-formulated to fit into the world’s ways and then place that person in the worshiping, evangelizing, witnessing, reconciling, peace-making, justice-advocating people of God is equivalent to putting an adolescent whose sole qualification consists of a fascination with speed, the ability to step on the accelerator, and expertise in operating the radio, behind the wheel of a brand-new Porsche.
The ways and means promoted and practiced in the world are a systematic attempt to substitute human sovereignty for God’s rule. The world as such has no interest in following the crucified King. Not that there isn’t plenty of lip-service offered along the way across a spectrum ranging from presidents to pastors. But when it comes down to an actual way of life, most of the language turns out to be court protocol—nothing to do with the way we are actually to order our affairs.
What I hope to call attention to is the undiscriminating way in which so many of us embrace and adopt the very ways and means that Jesus rejected, taking up with the world in ways suggested by the promises of the devil: assurances of power and influence, domination and success. Every such practice diverts energy from the community of Jesus, blurs the distinctiveness of the way of Jesus, and (whether intentional or not, usually not) insinuates a defiant element of resistance to the prayers of millions of Christians who pray daily, ‘Thy kingdom come.’â€
January 5, 2008 5:23 AM
My wife tried to get a job at his church, one for which she was perfectly qualified for and was immediately turned down...she wasn't "cool" enough for the supposed "blue jeans" church.
January 5, 2008 12:58 PM
posted by George P. Wood at 7:48 PM on Jan 2, 2008