George - Thanks for your help. And Pastor Jeremy - Great question and thanks for the testimonial. That is exactly what we're looking for.
Blessings,
Tom & Jan Bougher
I hope they fix the Kids Bible curriculum - I was with a friend once who was going through the notebook on the Judges (for 5-6th graders) and we all laughed our heads off when it talked about "Sampson's Athletic Career." !!???
Why not just explain to the kids what/who the Judges were and their purpose in Israel's history and go from there? Kids are smarter then most adults give them credit for.
Brian Fulthorp
Pastor
Grand Canyon A/G
Grand Canyon, AZ
I'm an A/G pastor but our departments do not typically use GPH curriculum. We keep trying it with our kids, but often do not have good results.
I just looked at the New Believers Handbook and was impressed, especially with the companion, New Believers Friend Guide for it's content but also the implied role of the Friend in the New Believers life. Really forward thinking.
We often use Group for our kids ministries for the following reasons:
-Super simple instructions
-ability to tailor the curriculum to a wide variety of time frames (can even carry it over to mid-week)
-simple box of tools that it comes with for all crafts, games, etc...(much easier on prep for our teachers)
-the content is relevant to the rapidly changing culture
I would much prefer to use A/G stuff. Group is very neutral on many issues which we are not (i.e. Holy Spirit) and does not encourage that immediate connection with the presence of God that I believe a Pentecostal curriculum could. Unfortunately, so far, GPH stuff has not engaged our kids (many are unchurched) and is more difficult for our teachers to prep for.
I'm a Young Adults Pastor and Master's Commission Director in TN.
The Young Adults/Singles material at GPH is seems very scarce and out of date. There is a variety of Nooma's available, but at 12.99 a piece for a 12 minute video, that can get expensive real fast.
I use Lifeway's Threads and a variety of resources from the Relevant Network.
Is GPH working on any material that is targeted toward the Postmodern Pentecostal. Are our Young Adults leaving the fellowship because everyone is speaking their language except for us?
Pastor Carlo - You will be pleased to know that GPH is currently preparing a Young Adult curriculum that will be both Relevant and Pentecostal.
(Miracles still happen.)
And it will be Fee Downloadable.
Thanks for the input.
"We're listening". That sounds like Dr. Crane, doesn’t it?
Tom & Jan
December 17, 2007 8:32 AM
Anonymous said...
"SamPson's Athletic Career"??
Are you kidding?! They misspelled Samson in the curriculum?
December 17, 2007 10:04 AM
Anonymous said...
Anonymous 12/17/10:04:
Misspellings erode credibility. However, the example cited is undoubtedly a glaring exception, not the rule. I know, because I used to work in the curriculum area and can attest to the care with which the material was edited. Given the millions of words printed at GPH over the years, a mistake is bound to slip by once in awhile. That's just the law of averages. Some mistakes are worse than others, of course, and I guess "Sampson" is pretty funny-looking.
By all means let's discuss content, format, relevance, etc., but let's not use a typo to infer a lack of scholarship overall.
December 17, 2007 1:37 PM
Anonymous said...
In an effort to clarify, I'll chime in and say that I believe the gentleman who posted originally about "Sampson" didn't intend to say that GPH misspelled the title. I believe it was his own mistake in typing his comment.
The second half of his comment contains the point he was trying to make.
And I must say, I am grateful for any effort to reach children at their level and show them how exciting the Bible can be. I would rather reach them where they are than come in above their heads. I agree that it shouldn't be dumbed down, but fifth and sixth graders are an active bunch that enjoy an exciting story. I guess I just can't see myself "laughing" at something that people poured their hearts into... especially not when it was done in an effort to share the Gospel with children.
Let's continue to check ourselves as we comment. After all, we are here to build our resources to advance His word.
GPH did have a critical mistake some years ago in their junior high books. They had Elijah not being taken to heaven in a chariot but actually dying. When contacted by our CE director and myself, they were tremendously apologetic and vowed to 'fix' their editing procedures to insure that it wouldn't occur again.
GPH is still a solid choice in curriculum for some areas of our church's christian education.
This is a great blog!! Love Tom's input as a go between for the church and Springfield. Wondered if the church Tom is in [non-A/G by the way... which is okay with me...] is still using the term 'Sunday School' and if there is still an outlet/extension for a 'Sunday School' time on Sundays at the church he is ministering in??
Our culture has changed vastly in recent times and i believe that many of our churches are to slow to change with the culture in being relevant... Education is critical--- but we need to present a time that works for the area and the people we are trying to reach. Sunday mornings may not be it!
Blessings...
w.g.smith
December 18, 2007 3:31 AM
Anonymous said...
Anonymous 12/18/07 12:44 AM said: "In an effort to clarify, … I believe the gentleman who posted originally about 'Sampson' didn't intend to say that GPH misspelled the title. I believe it was his own mistake in typing his comment."
I jumped to a conclusion about your comment. You weren't saying anything critical at all -- quite the opposite. Your follow-up comments were gracious and insightful. I was being defensive, I now realize, and I apologize.
Pastor Smith is accurate. After working 3 years as a GPH Field Rep, the program was shut down. Since then I have been working on staff with my brother-in-law as his LIFE Group/Small Group and Adult Discipleship pastor. (I am currently doing research for GPH on a part-time basis, under J.T. Wray and Jim McCreight)
Here is as short an answer as I can give to Pastor Smith's post:
Due to the quick growth of the church here, they‘ve grown from 13 to over 2500 in almost 8 years, they have had to worship in pre-owned buildings; hotels, warehouses, and now they bought a 70,000 sq. ft. old Service Merchandise store.
It has been a challenge to include Adult Discipleship in a church without classrooms.
We have had 75% to 85% of our classes in homes.
We currently only have room for a New Believers Class, a Membership Class, and a Restoration Class on Sunday mornings.
Here are My Limited Observations:
1. Small Groups are more Adult Oriented. (Ours meet monthly.)
There are very few churches that have effective, true Family Groups, where children learn with their parents. (Some call these groups: Intergenerational.)
Most small groups send the children off to watch VegeTales, or just be watched.
(This means the only time our children learn bible truth is in Children’s Church or home.)
2. Small Groups function best with a community purpose.
Meaning true discipleship is merely at the beginning stages in a LIFE Group/Small Group.
3. We need more discipleship training. After training our teachers, we have added 8 week discipleship electives for adults only. This is a least a step toward more effective discipleship. (Still just the beginning.)
4. We’ve had to learn that LIFE Groups are not for LIFE. (Forever)
We’ve gone to a 4 month semester system, with sign ups. That system has helped our groups add new groups and include new people. We have Family Groups, Prayer Groups, Interest Groups, and ABF Groups.
We are genuinely concerned about the lack of true discipleship that our church offers. Unless people get involved with one of our 148 ministries – we have a Network Directory printed and on line, they remain as spectators. Meaning the only spiritual truth that touches them, comes from the pulpit on Sunday morning or Wednesday night.
FYI: The quick growth of the church here, I believe stems from
2 things:
1. The emphasis on Outreach. From the beginning, the majority of our church people here are involved with feeding the poor – Manna House, reaching neighborhood children on weekends with Street Quest, or Light Bulb Evangelism and other outreaches.
2. The system of Government. This church does not elect deacons. They have a board of directors made up of pastors and missionaries who currently serve elsewhere. They do have deacons, but they are chosen because of their heart to serve, and Serving is what the deacons do.
December 18, 2007 7:40 AM
Zorro said...
"2. The system of Government. This church does not elect deacons. They have a board of directors made up of pastors and missionaries who currently serve elsewhere. They do have deacons, but they are chosen because of their heart to serve, and Serving is what the deacons do."
Again you grant us some great insight... thanks and true blessings my brother...
The church government model is probably more scriptural than our traditional A/G model where we nominate/ elect and have term limits. A pastor just hopes he/ she gains deacons who will 'serve' as you say. Our model is more of a democratic model in what is to be a theocratic system. Churches are learning this lesson the hard way. Some pastors are pushing towards a more NT model for the church but it is extremely difficult in churches that have been established for any length of time. It is being done but it takes its toll on someone--- usually the lead pastor.
Currently we are also in a store front building, young church, striving to reach a very needy community. We are witnessing lives changed and we have a goal of discipling them. Perhaps not through the traditional ways of say Sunday School, but through the small group settings that Tom B. spoke of.... GPH has come a long way in providing material for such small groups.
Again, keep up the good work Tom!
Blessings...
w.g.smith
December 18, 2007 2:31 PM
Rebecca Gullion said...
I’m the Coordinator of Discipleship and Small Groups at HQ, working under the direction of the Commissioner of Discipleship (and Assistant General Superintendent) Alton Garrison. I also served in the same role under Brother Crabtree prior to his retirement. A couple of you mentioned using The New Believer’s Handbook and The New Believer’s Friend Handbook. Brother Crabtree and I developed those and I’m so pleased you have found them useful.
We have developed an online discipleship forum as an avenue for pastors and church leaders to discuss discipleship issues. Recently Alton Garrison has asked me to post some items he would like your input on to help us define and shape our discipleship efforts for the Fellowship. You may view and comment on them at this link http://forums.ag.org/discipleship/index.php?board=34.0. Please note, first time visitors must register in order to participate on the forum. Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you!
December 19, 2007 12:51 PM
Anonymous said...
Below is an e-mail that I sent to GPH one week ago and have not received any response on yet.
Hello GPH Editors-
This could be a printing mistake, and I’m sure you’ve probably already heard, but I just ordered and received a copy of “The New Believer’s Handbook†and the very first sentence inside has a major error. It reads “You just made best decision of your life by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior.†It should read “You just made the (omitted word) best decision of your life by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior.†I’m an ordained A/G minister, and I'm honestly trying to be helpful not picky, but it’s just that I was looking forward to using this material for a very important stage in someone’s life and faith, and the very first sentence of this book is incorrect. I haven't gotten to the rest of the book yet, but I just wanted to bring that to your attention. I really do want the best for our organization, and I'm grateful for your efforts and all you do!
December 20, 2007 10:55 AM
Anonymous said...
Sweet, I heard from them today (regarding my comment immediately above), and that mistake will be corrected at the reprint. :) I guess this works! Thank you!
December 20, 2007 2:54 PM
Rebecca Gullion said...
Yes, we discovered that mistake shortly after it was printed and felt horrible about it. But GPH has also assured me that it will be corrected by the next printing!
Okay, so I posted somewhat quickly and missed the typo on SamPson...and perhaps "laughed our heads off" was too strong - really, we just thought it was funny (and odd) and not necessarily putting down GPH. The point was "what athletic career?"
Anyways, I trust the folks at GPH will have copies of Group and Relevant Curriculum open for reference as they update the Kids curriculum.
The best thing I like about it, is that it gives the kids an overview of the Bible (more or less) in two years.
December 21, 2007 1:26 PM
Anonymous said...
Does the AG engage in History revisionism? We do when it comes to our doctrine on the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. This is according to Dr. Cecil Robeck, Jr. in his article in Pneuma, The Journal of the Society for Pentecostal Studies. That article entitled "An Emerging Magisterium?" Wayne Warner,former director of the archives admitted that J.Roswell Flower's testimony regarding his Baptism in the Holy Spirit was altered by someone in Springfield to fit our official position. This article is well worth reading and discussing!
December 21, 2007 1:43 PM
...gets the oil.
Many of the posts on this blog dealt with the "irrelevance" and "outdatedness" of GPH curricula. Is anyone listening? According to Tom and Jan Bougher, GPH certainly is:
I want you to know that GPH has been interested in your blog and is creating a permanent site to gather input regarding ministries and tools to better resource our churches. I have a temporary site that is being used for that now. If it is appropriate, please share this info with your bloggers - I would love to hear from them. (This info is being collected and passed on to GPH now.)Here's a link to the site. I think the Boughers want us to respond to the seven questions in this post. Feel free to answer the questions at the Bougher's site, or in the comments section right here. Either way, GPH will take note of your input.
posted by George P. Wood at 6:45 PM on Dec 13, 2007
Mowser
"The Squeaky Wheel..."
25 Comments -
The link to "the site" doesn't appear to be functional.
December 14, 2007 7:40 AM
It should be http://discipleshipbestpractices.blogspot.com/
Someone just transcribed it wrong when creating the hyperlink.
December 14, 2007 7:56 AM
The link has been fixed.
December 14, 2007 9:47 AM
I'm curious... for those of you who DO use GPH, what do you typically purchase?
I recently picked up their "New Believer's Handbook" for our church. I think it's great and simple.
December 14, 2007 11:01 AM
George - Thanks for your help. And Pastor Jeremy - Great question and thanks for the testimonial. That is exactly what we're looking for.
Blessings,
Tom & Jan Bougher
December 14, 2007 11:24 AM
I hope they fix the Kids Bible curriculum - I was with a friend once who was going through the notebook on the Judges (for 5-6th graders) and we all laughed our heads off when it talked about "Sampson's Athletic Career." !!???
Why not just explain to the kids what/who the Judges were and their purpose in Israel's history and go from there? Kids are smarter then most adults give them credit for.
Brian Fulthorp
Pastor
Grand Canyon A/G
Grand Canyon, AZ
December 14, 2007 8:37 PM
I'm an A/G pastor but our departments do not typically use GPH curriculum. We keep trying it with our kids, but often do not have good results.
I just looked at the New Believers Handbook and was impressed, especially with the companion, New Believers Friend Guide for it's content but also the implied role of the Friend in the New Believers life. Really forward thinking.
We often use Group for our kids ministries for the following reasons:
-Super simple instructions
-ability to tailor the curriculum to a wide variety of time frames (can even carry it over to mid-week)
-simple box of tools that it comes with for all crafts, games, etc...(much easier on prep for our teachers)
-the content is relevant to the rapidly changing culture
I would much prefer to use A/G stuff. Group is very neutral on many issues which we are not (i.e. Holy Spirit) and does not encourage that immediate connection with the presence of God that I believe a Pentecostal curriculum could. Unfortunately, so far, GPH stuff has not engaged our kids (many are unchurched) and is more difficult for our teachers to prep for.
December 15, 2007 8:12 AM
Brian & Rachel - Thanks for the input. We'll pass along your thoughts.
Tom & Jan
December 15, 2007 2:59 PM
I'm a Young Adults Pastor and Master's Commission Director in TN.
The Young Adults/Singles material at GPH is seems very scarce and out of date. There is a variety of Nooma's available, but at 12.99 a piece for a 12 minute video, that can get expensive real fast.
I use Lifeway's Threads and a variety of resources from the Relevant Network.
Is GPH working on any material that is targeted toward the Postmodern Pentecostal. Are our Young Adults leaving the fellowship because everyone is speaking their language except for us?
December 17, 2007 7:25 AM
Pastor Carlo - You will be pleased to know that GPH is currently preparing a Young Adult curriculum that will be both Relevant and Pentecostal.
(Miracles still happen.)
And it will be Fee Downloadable.
Thanks for the input.
"We're listening". That sounds like Dr. Crane, doesn’t it?
Tom & Jan
December 17, 2007 8:32 AM
"SamPson's Athletic Career"??
Are you kidding?! They misspelled Samson in the curriculum?
December 17, 2007 10:04 AM
Anonymous 12/17/10:04:
Misspellings erode credibility. However, the example cited is undoubtedly a glaring exception, not the rule. I know, because I used to work in the curriculum area and can attest to the care with which the material was edited. Given the millions of words printed at GPH over the years, a mistake is bound to slip by once in awhile. That's just the law of averages. Some mistakes are worse than others, of course, and I guess "Sampson" is pretty funny-looking.
By all means let's discuss content, format, relevance, etc., but let's not use a typo to infer a lack of scholarship overall.
December 17, 2007 1:37 PM
In an effort to clarify, I'll chime in and say that I believe the gentleman who posted originally about "Sampson" didn't intend to say that GPH misspelled the title. I believe it was his own mistake in typing his comment.
The second half of his comment contains the point he was trying to make.
And I must say, I am grateful for any effort to reach children at their level and show them how exciting the Bible can be. I would rather reach them where they are than come in above their heads. I agree that it shouldn't be dumbed down, but fifth and sixth graders are an active bunch that enjoy an exciting story. I guess I just can't see myself "laughing" at something that people poured their hearts into... especially not when it was done in an effort to share the Gospel with children.
Let's continue to check ourselves as we comment. After all, we are here to build our resources to advance His word.
December 18, 2007 12:44 AM
GPH did have a critical mistake some years ago in their junior high books. They had Elijah not being taken to heaven in a chariot but actually dying. When contacted by our CE director and myself, they were tremendously apologetic and vowed to 'fix' their editing procedures to insure that it wouldn't occur again.
GPH is still a solid choice in curriculum for some areas of our church's christian education.
This is a great blog!! Love Tom's input as a go between for the church and Springfield. Wondered if the church Tom is in [non-A/G by the way... which is okay with me...] is still using the term 'Sunday School' and if there is still an outlet/extension for a 'Sunday School' time on Sundays at the church he is ministering in??
Our culture has changed vastly in recent times and i believe that many of our churches are to slow to change with the culture in being relevant... Education is critical--- but we need to present a time that works for the area and the people we are trying to reach. Sunday mornings may not be it!
Blessings...
w.g.smith
December 18, 2007 3:31 AM
Anonymous 12/18/07 12:44 AM said: "In an effort to clarify, … I believe the gentleman who posted originally about 'Sampson' didn't intend to say that GPH misspelled the title. I believe it was his own mistake in typing his comment."
I jumped to a conclusion about your comment. You weren't saying anything critical at all -- quite the opposite. Your follow-up comments were gracious and insightful. I was being defensive, I now realize, and I apologize.
December 18, 2007 7:34 AM
Pastor Smith is accurate. After working 3 years as a GPH Field Rep, the program was shut down. Since then I have been working on staff with my brother-in-law as his LIFE Group/Small Group and Adult Discipleship pastor. (I am currently doing research for GPH on a part-time basis, under J.T. Wray and Jim McCreight)
Here is as short an answer as I can give to Pastor Smith's post:
Due to the quick growth of the church here, they‘ve grown from 13 to over 2500 in almost 8 years, they have had to worship in pre-owned buildings; hotels, warehouses, and now they bought a 70,000 sq. ft. old Service Merchandise store.
It has been a challenge to include Adult Discipleship in a church without classrooms.
We have had 75% to 85% of our classes in homes.
We currently only have room for a New Believers Class, a Membership Class, and a Restoration Class on Sunday mornings.
Here are My Limited Observations:
1. Small Groups are more Adult Oriented. (Ours meet monthly.)
There are very few churches that have effective, true Family Groups, where children learn with their parents. (Some call these groups: Intergenerational.)
Most small groups send the children off to watch VegeTales, or just be watched.
(This means the only time our children learn bible truth is in Children’s Church or home.)
2. Small Groups function best with a community purpose.
Meaning true discipleship is merely at the beginning stages in a LIFE Group/Small Group.
3. We need more discipleship training. After training our teachers, we have added 8 week discipleship electives for adults only. This is a least a step toward more effective discipleship. (Still just the beginning.)
4. We’ve had to learn that LIFE Groups are not for LIFE. (Forever)
We’ve gone to a 4 month semester system, with sign ups. That system has helped our groups add new groups and include new people. We have Family Groups, Prayer Groups, Interest Groups, and ABF Groups.
We are genuinely concerned about the lack of true discipleship that our church offers. Unless people get involved with one of our 148 ministries – we have a Network Directory printed and on line, they remain as spectators. Meaning the only spiritual truth that touches them, comes from the pulpit on Sunday morning or Wednesday night.
FYI: The quick growth of the church here, I believe stems from
2 things:
1. The emphasis on Outreach. From the beginning, the majority of our church people here are involved with feeding the poor – Manna House, reaching neighborhood children on weekends with Street Quest, or Light Bulb Evangelism and other outreaches.
2. The system of Government. This church does not elect deacons. They have a board of directors made up of pastors and missionaries who currently serve elsewhere. They do have deacons, but they are chosen because of their heart to serve, and Serving is what the deacons do.
December 18, 2007 7:40 AM
"2. The system of Government. This church does not elect deacons. They have a board of directors made up of pastors and missionaries who currently serve elsewhere. They do have deacons, but they are chosen because of their heart to serve, and Serving is what the deacons do."
Very cool... Interested to learn more about it.
December 18, 2007 11:35 AM
quick question for Tom.
the young adult stuff coming out, you say its downloadable...is it in an editable format?
December 18, 2007 12:07 PM
Tom...
Again you grant us some great insight... thanks and true blessings my brother...
The church government model is probably more scriptural than our traditional A/G model where we nominate/ elect and have term limits. A pastor just hopes he/ she gains deacons who will 'serve' as you say. Our model is more of a democratic model in what is to be a theocratic system. Churches are learning this lesson the hard way. Some pastors are pushing towards a more NT model for the church but it is extremely difficult in churches that have been established for any length of time. It is being done but it takes its toll on someone--- usually the lead pastor.
Currently we are also in a store front building, young church, striving to reach a very needy community. We are witnessing lives changed and we have a goal of discipling them. Perhaps not through the traditional ways of say Sunday School, but through the small group settings that Tom B. spoke of.... GPH has come a long way in providing material for such small groups.
Again, keep up the good work Tom!
Blessings...
w.g.smith
December 18, 2007 2:31 PM
I’m the Coordinator of Discipleship and Small Groups at HQ, working under the direction of the Commissioner of Discipleship (and Assistant General Superintendent) Alton Garrison. I also served in the same role under Brother Crabtree prior to his retirement. A couple of you mentioned using The New Believer’s Handbook and The New Believer’s Friend Handbook. Brother Crabtree and I developed those and I’m so pleased you have found them useful.
We have developed an online discipleship forum as an avenue for pastors and church leaders to discuss discipleship issues. Recently Alton Garrison has asked me to post some items he would like your input on to help us define and shape our discipleship efforts for the Fellowship. You may view and comment on them at this link http://forums.ag.org/discipleship/index.php?board=34.0. Please note, first time visitors must register in order to participate on the forum. Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you!
December 19, 2007 12:51 PM
Below is an e-mail that I sent to GPH one week ago and have not received any response on yet.
Hello GPH Editors-
This could be a printing mistake, and I’m sure you’ve probably already heard, but I just ordered and received a copy of “The New Believer’s Handbook†and the very first sentence inside has a major error. It reads “You just made best decision of your life by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior.†It should read “You just made the (omitted word) best decision of your life by accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior.†I’m an ordained A/G minister, and I'm honestly trying to be helpful not picky, but it’s just that I was looking forward to using this material for a very important stage in someone’s life and faith, and the very first sentence of this book is incorrect. I haven't gotten to the rest of the book yet, but I just wanted to bring that to your attention. I really do want the best for our organization, and I'm grateful for your efforts and all you do!
December 20, 2007 10:55 AM
Sweet, I heard from them today (regarding my comment immediately above), and that mistake will be corrected at the reprint. :) I guess this works! Thank you!
December 20, 2007 2:54 PM
Yes, we discovered that mistake shortly after it was printed and felt horrible about it. But GPH has also assured me that it will be corrected by the next printing!
December 20, 2007 4:45 PM
Okay, so I posted somewhat quickly and missed the typo on SamPson...and perhaps "laughed our heads off" was too strong - really, we just thought it was funny (and odd) and not necessarily putting down GPH. The point was "what athletic career?"
Anyways, I trust the folks at GPH will have copies of Group and Relevant Curriculum open for reference as they update the Kids curriculum.
The best thing I like about it, is that it gives the kids an overview of the Bible (more or less) in two years.
December 21, 2007 1:26 PM
Does the AG engage in History revisionism? We do when it comes to our doctrine on the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. This is according to Dr. Cecil Robeck, Jr. in his article in Pneuma, The Journal of the Society for Pentecostal Studies. That article entitled "An Emerging Magisterium?" Wayne Warner,former director of the archives admitted that J.Roswell Flower's testimony regarding his Baptism in the Holy Spirit was altered by someone in Springfield to fit our official position. This article is well worth reading and discussing!
December 21, 2007 1:43 PM
Many of the posts on this blog dealt with the "irrelevance" and "outdatedness" of GPH curricula. Is anyone listening? According to Tom and Jan Bougher, GPH certainly is:
I want you to know that GPH has been interested in your blog and is creating a permanent site to gather input regarding ministries and tools to better resource our churches. I have a temporary site that is being used for that now. If it is appropriate, please share this info with your bloggers - I would love to hear from them. (This info is being collected and passed on to GPH now.)Here's a link to the site. I think the Boughers want us to respond to the seven questions in this post. Feel free to answer the questions at the Bougher's site, or in the comments section right here. Either way, GPH will take note of your input.
posted by George P. Wood at 6:45 PM on Dec 13, 2007