Arch “clown” er “Bishop of Canterbury: ‘Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims’
July 17, 2008 by John
Now I dont think he is just stating the obvious for informational purposes it sounds more like he is setting the stage to slice and dice the “Doctrine of the Trinity” until it is so corrupted that it “becomes of no affect” thereby placating Muslims!
What a wretched man indeed!
Christian doctrine is offensive to Muslims, the Archbishop of Canterbury said yesterday.
Dr Rowan Williams also criticised Christianity’s history for its violence, its use of harsh punishments and its betrayal of its peaceful principles.
His comments came in a highly conciliatory letter to Islamic leaders calling for an alliance between the two faiths for ‘the common good’.Â
But it risked fresh controversy for the Archbishop in the wake of his pronouncement earlier this year that a place should be found for Islamic sharia law in the British legal system.
Dr Williams is also facing immense pressures from inside his own Church of England and Anglican Communion.
A gathering of Anglican bishops from around the world, which begins today, is on the brink of a devastating split over whether homosexuality and gay clergy should win their approval.
The Archbishop’s letter is a reply to feelers to Christians put out by Islamic leaders from 43 countries last autumn.
In it, Dr Williams said violence is incompatible with the beliefs of either faith and that, once that principle is accepted, both can work together against poverty and prejudice and to help the environment.
He also said the Christian belief in the Trinity - that God is Father, Son and Holy Ghost at the same time - ‘is difficult, sometimes offensive, to Muslims’.
Trinitarian doctrine conflicts with the Islamic view that there is just one all-powerful God.
Dr Williams added: ‘It is all the more important for the sake of open and careful dialogue that we try to clarify what we do and do not mean by it, and so I trust that what follows will be read in this spirit.’
He told Muslim leaders that faith has no connection with political power or force, and that Christians have in the past betrayed this idea.
‘Christianity has been promoted at the point of the sword and legally supported by extreme sanctions,’ Dr Williams said.
Islam, he continued, has been supported in the same way and ‘there is no religious tradition whose history is exempt from such temptation and such failure.’
The Archbishop appeared to rebuke his colleague, Bishop of Rochester Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, who criticised his sharia lecture and who maintains that Christianity is central to British law, politics and society.
‘Religious identity has often been confused with cultural or national integrity, with structures of social control, with class and regional identities, with empire: and it has been imposed in the interest of all these and other forms of power,’ he said.
The Archbishop said that faiths which reject the use of violence should learn to defend each other in their mutual interest.
‘If we are in the habit of defending each other, we ought to be able to learn to defend other groups and communities as well,’ he said.
‘We can together speak for those who have no voice or leverage in society - for the poorest, the most despised, the least powerful, for women and children, for migrants and minorities; and even to speak together for the great encompassing reality that has no voice of its own, our injured and abused material environment.’
The Archbishop did not mention sharia at all in his closely-argued 18-page letter. Dr Williams was heavily criticised by MPs and Downing Street after he suggested sharia law could have an established place in British life.
But his letter in reply to last year’s Islamic approach, A Common Word for the Common Good, chimes with his view expressed in February that people of faith should be able to work together against secularism despite their differences.
Lambeth Palace hinted that Christians as well as Muslims should listen to Dr Williams’ message.
Officials pointed to the Archbishop’s call for ‘religious plurality’ to turn to serving the common good and added: ‘This is true even where truth claims may seem irreconcilable’.
A number of conservative and evangelical Anglican bishops are poised to break away from the 400-year-old network of Anglican churches around the world because they believe homosexual behaviour is incompatible with Christian principles.
Among those expected to boycott the Lambeth Conference in Canterbury is Dr Nazir-Ali, whose seat in Rochester is just 20 miles away.
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I was speaking to a msulim in the gym yesterday and he was saying that the Koran says that all religions gods’ are the same. But I did not take issue with that, I did not ake issue with anything hesaid or debate Him on what that “Holy book Koran” said, I only said that Jesus himself said He is the Way, the Truth and the Life and that NO man or woman shall come to the Father but by or thru Him. He tried to confuse the matter by saying that Adam was the Son Of God and so was Jesus thereby confusing who is the Son of God. 1st, I said that Adam was CREATED by God from dust, Jesus was born of a virgin supernatyurally and did not begin completley from dust. Tgis is what most lost pople say, that we are ALL children of God, not so! Paul said that we WERE formerly controlled by the prince of the power of the air and children of disobedience. And as fas as I know God never birthed sinners from His nature, so we cannot be His seed, only by being birthed a 2nd time, a new creature as Paul said, can we be His seed, children of adoption, with Jesus being the ONLY begotten of God. So Adam and Jesus are not to be held in the same breath. But from what he said and was saying about mary and Jesus and the 13th Imam, he was ful of all kinds of conflicting ideas as I can see now, but these are the kinds of things to be expected as dialogue between christians and muslims picks up, whcih it will and I can see peace and tranquility reigning instead of armed conflict so the gospel may have freedom to be spread as Paul said as our reason to pray for our leaders. We must NOT be ignorant of what Scriptures say and what the truth is really. I mean how can we truly contend for the faith and for the souls of perhaps well=meaning people but misinformed and deceived people, all the same. We MUST resist the temptation to be vengeful or develop hearts of debate, but ready to give an answer and explain the faith and truth to them. I do not belive God wants people to be in the dark about things, especially those things regarding conditons, spiritually, historically, geneteically, etc. His naute is not on eof darkness but light, possibly blinding, but I believe He would not wist any should perish or stand before Him at the great white throne and neither should we, although it is a fact, it should not be our desire for them to be there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Terry,
Some good comments.
What we are seeing now is Man’s fallen logic trying to put forth that since Christians and Muslims worship one God, which means both have a monotheistic “god” then according to man’s fallen logic Christianity’s God and Islam’s god must be one and the same. We just happen to worship him differently! However in this fallen logic both path’s therefore must be valid!
The problem is this. You cannot use man’s fallen logic to decide if Christians and Muslims worship the same God! Man’s fallen logic cannot comprehend the spiritual things of the One True God and therefore it comes to wrong conclusions:
1 Corinthians 2:14:
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
and You must look at the attributes of each one as described in The Bible and the Qu’ran.
The “god” of the Qur’an’s attributes are more like what we see from other false religions. i.e. he has no personal attributes! He is just pure will, a force, he does not have a personal relationship with those whom he has created, He is a will who is to be obeyed full stop! He does not love!
The True God of the Bible is much different, he has personal attributes, he wants a personal relationship with those whom he has created, he loves, he is knowable, he is not just a force, he is a spirit. He is a singular God (a single What) but he is triune in his nature (multiple who’s).
So the effort on now to bring together all monotheistic beliefs under on umbrella “god” is false and driven by man’s fallen logic and desire to recast the True God into a “god” that satisfies all religions.
In regards to Jesus He is the son of God and was concieved of the Holy Spirit within a Human Body however he has existed for all eternity with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit since the Singular God (The What) has had a triune nature (Three who’s) for all eternity. And that is a major difference between Adam, and Jesus. Adam was a created being, Adam had a beginning, Jesus was not a created being and he did not have a beginning:
John 1:1-5:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend
In regards to your statement:
“and I can see peace and tranquility reigning instead of armed conflict so the gospel may have freedom to be spread as Paul said as our reason to pray for our leaders”
This is a false statement, peace will not reign until Jesus comes back at the second coming.
Jesus himself said:
Matthew 10:34-39:
Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
Jesus was making a very deep and profound statement here. He was not suggesting that Christians should conquer with war for their faith or to force their faith on others. What he is saying is that his word, The Truth will divide, it will cause divisions and strife because many people will reject the truth of god’s Word and that Jesus is the only way by which a person must be saved, that Jesus was both fully God and fully man, that he has existed for all time with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, and they will seek to war against that truth to stamp it out, because it does not fit their goals of conquest or for worldwide unity.
And others who accept his truth would be willing to die, to separate themselves from family, friends, homes etc to hold to his truth rather than deny the truth of his word, that Jesus is the only way by which we must be saved, that he was both God and Man and that he has existed for all eternity with God the FAther and God the Son!
And this will continue and escalate until Jesus returns! So there will be no peace reigning for any length of time before Jesus returns.
There will be a short space of peace when the Anti-Christ comes to power but it will be a false peace built upon a false religion of a false universal god that brings together and satisfies all religions!
Daniel 8:25:
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.