Think Progress

Gee, if they improved the GI Bill, nobody would re-up to die for Halliburton, KBR, and Exxon-Mobil.

Can’t have that happen now. Stay in the army forever(at least till you die or are maimed)

As a former military wife, I remember in the 90’s, under Bush I, a program was instituted (my husband called it reduction by attrition), in which the educational level required for promotion to certain grades was greatly increased. This meant that in order to advance, you HAD to have more education or you were forced out…now we want to enact legislation that forces you to stay in longer to even receive the benefit? Does this seem logical? I personally believe that providing a servicemember with an education is the least we can do in return for honorable service to our country.

“The last thing we want to do is create a situation in which we are losing our men and women who we have worked so hard to train.”

Good thinking, Morrell! The last thing we want is to lose our troops to civilian life, which is why we need more troop-friendly policies like repeated year-long deployments in a pointless war and stop-loss policies and a woefully inadequate VA mental health care system!

The U.S. military survives on the backs of the poor & ignorant. Education is that last thing they want to see. And by setting their sights on 6 years they figure few will survive to benefit. What a f*&ked up administration. What’s worse is I hear more & more rumblings that McCain will win this thing. I wouldn’t have believed that GWB would be elected to a 3rd term.

.

The White House, the Pentagon and 44 Senators oppose the GI bill because the troops will benefit from such legislation.

Why do these people hate our troops?

.

The WH and the like are soooo concerned about retention, BUT wouldn’t a strong G.I. Bill help with recruitment in return?

You lose some then you gain some. It’s called a cycle.

I guess if they are in school, they can’t be stop-lossed perhaps.

win haz edukashun ever helpd nowon?

keep em’ dumb!

Under “normal” circumstances, I actually think that becoming eligible after two years is a bit too soon, but, these are not normal times and with Bush threatening to open up a new war with Iran (and who knows who else) it’s probably the only way to keep the ranks full.

Or, if there was another 9/11 to exploit the people’s patriotism…

The longer they make them stay in the less likely they are to ever use any of the “benefits”. Keep them in until they get killed or are ready to commit suicide and look how much money they save. Way to support the troops, jerkfaces.

Wish that once — just once — folks tied to this administration could show “the vision thing,” as President Bush’s father used to say.

Clearly, the number of those interested in enlisting will increase as a result of improved benefits (like college education or job training) and conditions (like, how ’bout, no more live wires hangin’ around showers).

Then, because of increased numbers, troops will not be asked to serve an unreasonable number of tours.

So, more will join.

All will benefit.

What. A. Bunch. Of. Short-sighted. Idiots.

Use it in a sound bite for the upcoming local and state elections against these yahoos.
Are these the same flag-lapel-pin-wearing uber patriotic people they claim themselves to be?
I’ll take the person who doesn’t wear their patriotism like a badge, but does the right thing, over any of these losers- all the time.

Beside, everybody know that the well educated vote for Democrats. We can’t have that can we?

Hmm, maybe if the neocons see to it that there are ridiculously higher gas prices, massive home foreclosures, increasing job losses, rapidly deteriorating infastructure, etc., we’d all be eager to the 100 Year McIraq War.

Look, these people are scum. They want to use the “rabble” of our society as a source for low cost cannon fodder. The voluntary military was initiated in order to limit the government’s ability to attract troops to an unpopular war. King George has gotten around this problem by using stop loss against existing troops and lowering standards for new recruits. Soldiers are being sent back for their third to seventh tour in Iraq or Afghanistan. No wonder why retention would become an issue. However, it is not a matter of educational benefits. It is instead a matter of feeding our troops through the meat grinder until they are dead or too injured to be sent back again.

Actually, a military that had increased in size to meet the needs of the “War on Terror” and improved benefits would have increased retention rates and have brought a higher quality of recruit into the system.

Educational benefits not only help the military, they help our society by providing a well disciplined and highly educated youth that can energize our businesses and industries just as did those who benefited by the WWII GI Bill. BTW, although you could volunteer for a particular branch of the service, the fact is that the military was built on draftees. The GI Bill was not a recruitment tool, it was recognition of the nation’s debt to those who put their lives on the line for their country.

Do you know how to spell c-a-n-n-o-n f-o-d-d-e-r?

That describes what soldiers are to the Bush draft dodging neocons. After they are done fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan, the Bush administration does its best to limit their access to health care and hard earned educational benefits.

How anyone in uniform can vote for McCain is completely beyond me.

PS I used the GI Bill while on active duty and after I retired from the Army to obtain a graduate degree.

6 years?!?!? WHAT!?!! It was only 4 years when I served in the early 90s…..they want to make it MORE difficult? What scum.

It was 180 consecutive days on active duty when I served in 1972. I ended up serving two-plus years, and I never used my full four-year allotment because I graduated from college after two years with it.

What is overlooked in this post is why people feel compelled to join the military. This is reminiscent of a T-shirt which has a picture of Uncle Sam on the front of the shirt. Above the image it states:

Join the Army.

Beneath Uncle Sam’s visage are printed the words:

Travel to exotic, distant lands: meet exciting, unusual people and kill them.

One wonders if this truth in advertising would attract more or less people if this message were to be seen at recruiting stations around the country.

So where’s all the press gangs?

Let’s not forget the immortal words of Karl Rove:

“As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing.”

56? WOW! coincidentally, that’s 4 fewer than needed to shut off debate. and 10 of ‘em GOPukes? so that means 46 DIMS are in favor, and there are 50 senators who caucus ad Dims…so 4 Dims aren’t with the program? which are the four Dims NOT on board? Lie-berman, certainly. Rockefeller? The Nelson boys?

Spoken like the koolaid drinking troll you are. AND, you’ve always been homeschooled haven’t you?

and a woefully inadequate VA mental health care system!

howsoever woefully inadequate, it is superior to the care they could get in civilian hospitals (none).

Linkmeister Says: It was 180 consecutive days on active duty when I served in 1972. I ended up serving two-plus years, and I never used my full four-year allotment because I graduated from college after two years with it.
May 6th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

the draft was still in place in ‘72. lbj reinstated the I bill in ‘66. the active duty requirement was, iirc, four years at first. it was shortened in light of the fact that most of the people using it were draftees who served only two year active enlistments…

I’ve decided to rename the Pentagon the

Five Sided Fu(kwadville.

What’s sad is it really appears that they don’t care for our brave men and women.
Oh sure, they’ll buy those little yellow ribbon bumper stickers that are made in China, but when it comes to actually supporting our troops, you get wise Asses stating that the last thing we want to do is provide a benefit.

And to think, it’s progressives who’ve always been unfairly labeled “troop haters”

Senate Republicans are not worried about our soldiers leaving the field and their education or future. They are worried about how much money will be left to be spread around to their friends at HallirapeU and KBRn’t we untouchable.

There’s a big difference between an educated conclusion and pulling facts out of your arse. I have seven years of college education with zero experience in being the target for indoctrination. Anyone else been indoctrinated in college?

My father spent two years in a North Korean Prison Camp. When he was discharged he got full college benefits, graduated and was very sucessful during his working career. That is not just supporting the troops but supporting the country as well. gwb went AWOL during the Viet Nam War and should never have been allowed to run for any political much less President of the United States. Who do you think is more qualified and patriotic my father or the coward bush.

Most college professors indoctrinate.

Baloney. Going by that logic, most cops are crooks as well.

political office bush annoys me so much i can’t type correctly.

I’ve decided to rename the Pentagon the

Five Sided Fu(kwadville.

Coincidence that they chose a building design based on the Pentagram? Only thing missing is a super-imposed star.

One-tenth of the money lost to government contracts over the last 6 years would take care of this entire program. So, this entire debate is all about how do the creeps sell kids on being cannon fodder.

i doont suppurt this bill becaz I make an oojudacated decizion. I manuged to avovoid beeing inducktrinated by librul proofesers.

Yeah, I was indoctrinated in college - to the idea that study leads to good grades. Others thought that crying about imagined biases would nullify bad grades - and they now work at service industry jobs.

The Answer seems so simple. Webb’s bill wants 2 years the NeoCons want 6… Split the difference and make it 4!

When I was in (Navy 82-91) you had to enlist for 4 years if you wanted any kind of decent training while in the service (which would help with better billets and promotion opportunities). You could enlist for shorter tours but that only ensured the lowest positions and worst jobs. When it came time for re-enlistment, you could get guarantees (shore commands, more training, nicer locations… etc…) if you re-up-ed for a longer period of time.

I agree 6yr.s is excessive, and while 2 would be nice, 4 is a better number.That would also help to ensure that there were enough “seasoned” vets bringing up the young guys and the cycle wouldn’t break.

i wurk at KBR thee plaice for oojucated people and ethuics.

-John Q. Chickenhawk

AfricanMexican is another alum form Redneck U who majored in stupidity.

Someone please ask, “How many combat tours does one have to go through before they deserve an education.”

Apparently putting yor life on the line once, twice, or even three times may not be enough!

I have a compromise. One year of tuition for every year of service. After 4 years, tie it to GPA.

If one of our soldiers wants his doctorate after 10 years of service, I have no problem paying for it.

I graduated from Alcorn State University in Mississippi. where did you go to college?

Even I, thee KBR oojucated employee kno this one. Yer seepoozed to capitalist the W at the beginnings, or Where did you go to college?

AfricanMexicanLeftright Says:

I graduated from Alcorn State University in Mississippi. where did you go to college?

Ferris State University, where I actually learned to capitalize the word that begins a new sentence.

That’s right!!! Education is deadly to our troops. Can’t have that. Ooooooh no!!

/sarc

I didn’t have time to read the thread, so, I’m sorry if I’m being redundant.

Leaving aside the fact that by serving in “wartime” a soldier is risking life and limb; Under current conditions the only way people are getting out after 2 years is: a. if they are a “screwup” or b. if they are injured.

I don’t see where either case is a bad risk. “Screwups” won’t be predisposed to use the benefits and anyone injured in the line of duty deserves every bit of it. In the current environment of extended enlistments/deployments and “stop loss” I just don’t think there’s a justifiable reason to fear qualified people leaving the service early.

If a Republicriminal had proposed an identical bill they would be behind it 100%. As is it’s just another chip in their game of obstructionism.

I graduated from Alcorn State University in Mississippi.

And what was your indoctrination - er, diploma in? I’m surprised you were able to graduate, given the hotbed of liberalism that is Alcorn State University. Or did you mean the colleges you didn’t attend?

TheRadicalRightisRadicallyWrong Says:
I agree 6yr.s is excessive, and while 2 would be nice, 4 is a better number.

Can I get an amen here?

Fcuking trolls.

PatrioticLiberalChristian Says:

Anyone else been indoctrinated in college?

ummm, I think I may have, but I was really really drunk on Tequila at the time, and I may have purposely erased it from memory banks.

I see our pet troll’s mommy left the computer unattended again. One would think that even a troll would understand that disrupting a conversation, about increasing the rewards for serving one’s country, makes said troll look like subhuman scum. I think a brief review of motives and means is in order.

L. Hussein Annie Says:
Fcuking trolls.
Annie - are you talking about me?

DRxJ; hey, I’m a bulldog too. Ferris State.

AfricanMexican; Just how can an ‘honorary soul brother’ be a racist?

“You know, lets just promise anyone who comes back alive a great job, a great marriage, a great life, lots of grandkids. ”

This is what corporate America is saying. Congress is just trying to figure how to pay for it.

Uncle Ho,
yessir. Graduated in ‘89.
Some of the best 5 years of my life (until I got married, of course)
Even had a dorm room to myself in Carlisle Hall for one year (ohhh, the stories!).

Leftcoast - are you a troll…?

A. If you are a troll, the answer is yes.
B. If you are not a troll, the answer is no.

You choose. ;o)

Two year service? I didn’t even know that was an option. When my ex was in the Navy in the 80’s, they offered four and six year enlistments, based upon what rate you went in to (what you were gonna do. Most electronics and computer people had six year enlistments.)

So they offer two years with the never get out of hell card (also called automatic extended enlistments - or what have you), and I would bet you that they would NOT get benefits because their original contract was for two years, thus making them ineligible to collect said benefits, even though the government broke their contract by forcing them to stay longer.

Jeez, this level of circular reasoning is making me dizzy.

Folks, there is no comparison to past global conflicts. Bush opened Pandora’s Box. Paying for this is not going to be over next year. or the next generation. Welcome to the Prescott’s world.

I served in the military at the same time, and in Europe, when Wes Clark was a EUCOM/NATO commander. There are a few serving military who do not like him, for personal, and now even moreso because he speaks out on issues that do not always coincide with present military stances. Listen to General Clark. He may not fit your model, but he is smart, wise, and on this issue behind Sen Webb.

My own military experience with new soldiers tells me that lots more will join than will leave because most young Americans value education strongly. MANY young people join for the longer term benefits of military service, including, very importantly, education. Nothing could be more beneficial to the military than to have young people join, serve three years and leave. The current military is over stressed. Its needs new blood. Not a pun, but intended.

If the military has a story to tell, then when these new recruits serve and earn their educational benefits, they will come back to society with a positive attitude about our presence in Iraq. Do I think they will? No. But that is the challenge that the military should rise up to. it is the challenge that the military has as a duty to its nation. I say, as I think Sen Webb says, do the right thing. Support the troops. Stop Quibbling. I capitalist the last word because academy grads kn ow what that means (was McCain Naval Academy?)

What could be worse than soldiers with degrees??

what could be worse than soldiers with degress?

thinking citizens perhaps?

HighPlainsJoker Says:
But that is the challenge that the military should rise up to. it is the challenge that the military has as a duty to its nation.

You have it backwards. The nation is responsible, not the military. If you go down your track we will not survive as a nation.

(was McCain Naval Academy?)
Yes, McCain was at the bottom of his class at the Naval Academy.

Uncle Ho-
I am laughing and crying.

DRxJ; I was in Vandercook Hall, back when it was Ferris State College. After being in the service, having one roommate was like wide-open spaces.

(was McCain Naval Academy?)
Yes, McCain was at the bottom of his class at the Naval Academy.

Folks, that was even after he grew up as the son of an Admiral. A life long military brat shows up on the bottom of the graduating class. Just what we need right now: another stiff assed dimwit who thinks he can run a nation.

?
what does this have to do with bill clinton and why is he pictured?
?

StratRat; and don’t forget this, McCain is the ONLY candidate who is a North Vietnamese Ace by virtue of his downing 5 U.S. aircraft.

Uncle Ho Says:

StratRat; and don’t forget this, McCain is the ONLY candidate who is a North Vietnamese Ace by virtue of his downing 5 U.S. aircraft.

I really shouldn’t laugh at that, but I will anyway. I guess we are fortunate McSame didn’t want to be an airline pilot.

Bush: Grandpa was a big player in business.
McCain: Grandpa was an Admiral

Bush: Daddy was big player in politics
McCain: Daddy was an Admiral

Bush: C (gentleman’s grade) student, bottom of class
McCain: Bottom of class at Naval Academy

Bush: AWOL from military service, never served abroad
McCain: Crashed 5 planes, the last one in North Viet Nam

Bush: Bashed McCain in ‘00 elections
McCain: Bashed Bush in ‘08 elections

Bush: Lied America into 6+ years of war
McCain: Wants America in 100 years of war

Anyone pick out any similarities here?
Any real differences?

McCain Left With The Wounded

McCain crashed 5 jets, plus was responsible for the Forrestal fire. Something made the plane behind McCain fired a rocket, which hit McCain’s external center fuel tank, and caused a fire. McCain panicked, and dropped two bombs into the fire.

When the carrier Oriskany came along side, and McCain was put in a chopper and whisked away. McCain was the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred
http://www.judicial-inc.biz/ 82jjohn_mccain_and_the_uss_forresta.htm

Man, who knows about these websites.

Close the Pentagon.

Zimzone Says:
Bush: Grandpa was a big player in business.
McCain: Grandpa was an Admiral

Nicely done.

If the Quislings in the Republican caucus could get their heads out of their asses and actually see what they’ve done to this country, the least, the ABSOLUTE LEAST they would do is support Webb’s bill. Why are they always concerned about MONEY when it goes to things that are worthwhile? Why do they only want to spend money we don’t have (and borrow it from, say our Toxic Friends in China) to kill people?

Leftcoast says,
Can I get an amen here?

uh… amen…? :D

Amen brotha

Ms Joanne says,
“Two year service?”

Yep, you were then considered to be in the reserve program. If I’m not mistaken you were still obligated for 2 or 3 more years of active “Drilling” But It’s been so long ago that I’m a little “sketchy” on the details. I went in on a 4yr. enlistment and found out in Bootcamp that if I extended for 2 more I could get some additional training (almost 2 years worth) so I did. Six years later I signed on for another 4 for a $40K bonus.

My exwife got most of that. ;) (actually, we got half upon enlistment and I was to get the remainder on my anniversary for the next 5 years, but alas, I only got to serve two of them.)

I was on what was called the 2 x 6 program. That meant 2 years active duty (not including active duty for training- boot camp and Class A school which was 6 months). the remainder was in the Ready Reserve- which was one weekend drill a month + 2 weeks in the summer.

at the end of all that- DISCHARGED after 6 years total service.

I didn’t know Alcorn State made crackerjacks!?

I went in for a three year enlistment, rather than get drafted. But today’s minimum is four, so that does make sense, unless of course, you’re wounded or serve less time because Iraq made you effing crazy…

BTW, my GI bill paid for my BA in PoliSci at UCSB…

RUSerious Sez: BTW, my GI bill paid for my BA in PoliSci at UCSB…
My last wife (in all repsects) got her PhD at UCSB. When were you there? I usta work at SBRC. when i got a PhD, i always yearned for a job there…i’d have held office hours on my surf-board off Coal-Oil Point…were you there while La Jicora was still open?

Uncle Ho at #75 had the same kind of service I did. Two years active duty (NavCommSta Japan), four years reserve. I ended up spending three years of that four-year obligation working a DOD contract overseas where there was no provision for weekend drills and the two-weeks-per-year was waived.

Our soldiers can live or die or come home wounded but we cannot give them a V.A. that will take care of them and now the Shrub and his cronies will not give them any help for an education, what a shame, how do these re-pukes sleep at nite? I say Impeachment and War crimes trials.