New York Times

Politics



May 15, 2008, 5:34 pm

Reaction to Gay Marriage Ruling

On the same day that Senator John McCain discussed his optimistic projections for the war in Iraq, a different war came into the war today. A ruling by the California Supreme Court could give the constantly simmering culture war new salience, as the state becomes the second to allow full-fledged gay marriage.

The court’s 4-to-3 decision, striking down two state laws that had limited marriages to unions between a man and a woman, will make California only the second state, after Massachusetts, to allow same-sex marriages.

None of the top presidential candidates fully embraced the ruling; the distinctions among their statements rested in tone and attitude toward the “deciders” of the case. Senator John McCain objected foremost to the fact that this decision came from the courts.

John Mccain - The Caucus - Politics - New York Times Blog

“John McCain supports the right of the people of California to recognize marriage as a unique institution sanctioning the union between a man and a woman, just as he did in his home state of Arizona,” said Tucker Bounds, a campaign spokesman. “John McCain doesn’t believe judges should be making these decisions.”

[For the record, Arizona's voters were the first state to reject an amendment to their state's constitution banning gay marriage in 2006.]

Statements from Senators Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton were nearly identical. While neither overtly criticized the decision, both sought to clarify that they support civil unions (opposed, implicitly, to marriage).

Hillary Rodham Clinton - The Caucus - Politics - New York Times Blog

From the Clinton campaign:

Hillary Clinton believes that gay and lesbian couples in committed relationships should have the same rights and responsibilities as all Americans and believes that civil unions are the best way to achieve this goal. As President, Hillary Clinton will work to ensure that same sex couples have access to these rights and responsibilities at the federal level. She has said and continues to believe that the issue of marriage should be left to the states.

From the Obama campaign:

Barack Obama - The Caucus - Politics - New York Times Blog

Barack Obama has always believed that same-sex couples should enjoy equal rights under the law, and he will continue to fight for civil unions as President. He respects the decision of the California Supreme Court, and continues to believe that states should make their own decisions when it comes to the issue of marriage.

One top Democrat did fully embrace the ruling. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who represents the San Francisco area:

Nancy Pelosi

I welcome the California Supreme Court’s historic decision. I have long fought against discrimination and believe that the State Constitution provides for equal treatment for all of California’s citizens and families, which today’s decision recognizes.

I commend the plaintiffs from San Francisco for their courage and commitment. I encourage California citizens to respect the Court’s decision, and I continue to strongly oppose any ballot measure that would write discrimination into the State Constitution.

Today is a significant milestone for which all Californians can take pride.

In any case, the ruling looks likely to stand, based on the succinct reaction from California’s Republican governor. “I respect the Court’s decision and as Governor, I will uphold its ruling,” said Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. “Also, as I have said in the past, I will not support an amendment to the constitution that would overturn this state Supreme Court ruling.”


From 1 to 25 of 87 Comments

1. May 15, 2008 6:02 pm Link

Look for new gasoline on the culture wars and sanctimonious politicians frothing at the mouth that marriage means boy-girl. Mitt Romney may split a gut.

— Mike McCaffrey
2. May 15, 2008 6:07 pm Link

I will go with the reaction of Nancy Pelosi, a woman I truly admire.

— Lioness
3. May 15, 2008 6:13 pm Link

The Legislature of California, which was elected by the people of California, voted to approve gay marriage twice. The only one in California who is not with the program is the Governor of California who vetoed the law twice.

An anti-gay marriage initiative passed in 2000 but, as we all should know, 2000 is long gone. I do not miss it.

— Wonks Anonymous
4. May 15, 2008 6:30 pm Link

Great! Not gay myself but certainly feel this is a meaningful and important Legislation. Good for California, congratulations to all who are gay. I hope this will be the beginning of everyone in America to marry who they want!
Wren

— Wren
5. May 15, 2008 6:40 pm Link

Next Pelosi would be standing by the polygamists and demagouging for their rights to marry how many ever they want…or won’t she…?

if the latter she becomes a demagoging hypocrite…
as would be any liberal buffooon that supports gay “marriage” but not a polygamists’ prefernce to marry more than one and have children with multiple wives…

— dravida
6. May 15, 2008 6:41 pm Link

3.May 15th,
2008
6:13 pm The Legislature of California, which was elected by the people of California, voted to approve gay marriage twice. The only one in California who is not with the program is the Governor of California who vetoed the law twice.

An anti-gay marriage initiative passed in 2000 but, as we all should know, 2000 is long gone. I do not miss it.

— Posted by Wonks Anonymous
_________________

The Governor said he would respect the California Supremes courts decision.

How do I feel, I don’t care.

— Brenda, CA
7. May 15, 2008 6:57 pm Link

I definitely like Nancy Pelosi’s response the best. I know Obama and Hillary are afraid that they can’t afford to take the same stance for political reasons, and they may be right that it would be political suicide, but I still think that people might actually respect them more if they didn’t compromise on this issue.

Hillary and Obama are both incrementalists and I respect that, but my personal take is that it is amazing that that gay marriage is even controversial in this day and age. I do have several married gay and lesbian friends who care more about equal rights under the law than the nomenclature.

— g english
8. May 15, 2008 6:59 pm Link

An historic moment in American history that will undoubtedly lead to other states following suit. Congratulations from Canada!

— Blanche
9. May 15, 2008 7:09 pm Link

I always tell the often-dismayed, this issue is on the rise. Can’t hold it back forever.

Such a shame the presidential candidates can’t just come out and support. I’m 100% sure Obama supports full gay marriage, and will work towards it once he’s in office. Unfortunately, it would be campaign suicide to declare it.

— jeremiah
10. May 15, 2008 7:15 pm Link

I wonder if Senator McCain would also support the right of the people of Virginia to define marriage as a unique institution sanctioning the union between a man and woman of the same race, or if he agrees with the Supreme Court’s ruling there (Loving v. Virginia).

— Kevin Costello
11. May 15, 2008 7:17 pm Link

Mainstreaming homosexuality seems fair, however, I have a few questions:

Won’t we be legally bound to teaching homosexual sex in schools?
Young people are by nature sexually ambivalent. This could turn out in a very surprising manner.

Won’t we be legally bound to provide separate bathrooms and locker rooms for straights and gays?
Taking away the stigma of homosexuality will free-up those aggressive and overbearing tendencies that we only recently have been able to get under control in straight men.

Is there a system in place to test the legitimacy of same-sex marriages for the purpose of financial and other spousal benefits?
If same sex people are living together, they might as well get married if it benefits the household.

Are we going to destroy as many or more rights as those that we create?
Already, those that believe in the classic attitudes they learned as children and have practiced their whole lives are treated like there’s something wrong with them.

Have we thought this through sufficiently to be confident about going against 5000 years of sociological and political thought, experience, and policy?

— denise
12. May 15, 2008 7:17 pm Link

I look forward to the constitutional amendment failing this November.

Sad that neither Clinton nor Obama can/will come out and wholeheartedly welcome an end to discrimination. Someday the rights to gay couples to marry will just be an embarrassment that we all will prefer to forget, just like the miscegenation laws. It was only in 41 years ago that the U.S. Supreme Court finally said they were unconstitutional.

— kk2b
13. May 15, 2008 7:29 pm Link

Civil rights for all; another step forward for the US. Congratulations to all those couples that can now legal commit themselves to one another.

— Kathleen
14. May 15, 2008 7:43 pm Link

A few sobering thoughts: (1) The Court has 6 Republicans and one Democrat. So much for the Democrats saying that we cannot appoint Republican judges. The Chief Justice and author is a Republican. (2) Senator Obama visited California after Gavin Newsome directed the city clerks to issue marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples, and Newsom and Willy Brown hosted two fundraisers for him. Obama’s condition was that he would not be photographed with Newsom because of the fallout Newsom’s courageous and ultimately legally correct act would have on Obama’s own poltical winds. A new politics? Baloney. I agree with reverend Wright. He’s just a politician.

— Michael
15. May 15, 2008 7:47 pm Link

As expected, the usual buffoonery of the homophobes leaks onto the blog as soon as this story is posted.

— Tom
16. May 15, 2008 8:00 pm Link

denise (11) - I’m not sure which straight men you’re talking about. All the ones I know support the right to marry whoever you want, regardless of what the government thinks. But then, all of my male friends were born in the 20th century, so that may be why we see things differently.

And regarding a “legitimacy test” for gay couples, why don’t you argue with the same zeal for a legitmacy test for straight couples? Wouldn’t a male and a female who live under the same roof be compeled to get married for the benefits, according to your logic?

What rights are being destroyed by the way with the legalization of same sex marriage in California? Don’t just make statements like the one you did, provide specifics.

— GinJ
17. May 15, 2008 8:04 pm Link

Congratulations all LGBT, this is extraordinary and beautiful news. Courage!

— kim
18. May 15, 2008 8:16 pm Link

Liberal fascism on acute display thru this ruling.

if only the heterophobes that “hail” this ruling,
know their history and understand how hitler used the Courts to overturn the will of the people, in the 1930s, to carry out his evil.

— deyada
19. May 15, 2008 8:21 pm Link

Much ado about nothing. Now everyone can go through the misery of divorce settlements.

— Steve Hunter
20. May 15, 2008 8:25 pm Link

FYI, regarding Gubernator Arnold’s vetoing the gay marriage bills. California law states that an initiative passed by the people CANNOT be reversed by the legislature. Therefore, even if he signed the law, it would only be reversed by the courts.

These facts are noted in the opinion.

Finally, HOORAY FOR LGBT! HOORAY FOR CALIFORNIA. I was in Australia when San Francisco started issuing the gay marriage licenses and I had never been so proud of my hometown. Now I am doubly proud of our state!

— Henry
21. May 15, 2008 8:28 pm Link

Have we thought this through sufficiently to be confident about going against 5000 years of sociological and political thought, experience, and policy

You might want to actually read history instead of just proclaiming it. It’s obvious you don’t know about the multitude of ways that same-sex behavior has been institutionalized in various societies.

— MAJeff
22. May 15, 2008 8:33 pm Link

To me, civil marriage is the legal equivalent of slavery, and as such, all marriage, gay and straight, is banned under 13th amendment.

As a non-binding religious ceremony, fine. But as far as a contract between two people involving property and other rights — no bond is ever so illegal and so onerous on human freedoms!

— John Bailo
23. May 15, 2008 8:34 pm Link

Ah, the living state constitution. A right, unfound for 159 years, suddenly exists. How cute. Why don’t we just throw off the shackles of those silly documents.
Polygamy seems very popular in some places. If the justices want celebratory cheering, how about, “Furthermore, in contrast to earlier times, our state now recognizes that an individual’s capacity to establish a loving and long-term committed relationship with another person(s) and responsibly to care for and raise children (Bunches) does not depend upon the individual’s number or age of partners — like a person’s race or gender — does not constitute a legitimate basis upon which to deny or withhold legal rights.”

— NC
24. May 15, 2008 8:40 pm Link

I wonder if Senator McCain would also support the right of the people of Virginia to define marriage as a unique institution sanctioning the union between a man and woman of the same race, or if he agrees with the Supreme Court’s ruling there (Loving v. Virginia).

— Posted by Kevin Costello (#10)

Excellant questions. The answers are probably yes to the first, and no to the second. Marriage laws are something that the Fed has no business mixing in with. The California court made its decision based on the constitution of that state. Other states should do the same, and the national candidates should not feel obligated to take a position one way or the other, unless they have a personal opinion, and I supppose that is really nobody’s business but theirs.

This is going to be a great election year though. You know that the religious crazies will come out of the woodwork to denounce the decision and bring hell fire and brimstone down on the heads of the justices. Can anyone say Taliban?

— ravenswing2
25. May 15, 2008 8:43 pm Link

Pelosi’s comments are pretty much on target. Of course, it would be difficult for her to say anything else, given her constituency. I wonder if she is inclined to take that firm a stand against amnesty for illegals and in favor of closing the borders. I doubt that, but I could be wrong.

— XFARB6

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