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Southwest Airlines once again fails to receive memo that airlines must lose money, suck (180)Clicked 18237 times; posted to Main on Thu, 24 Jul 2008 at 12:31 PM
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They got lucky. They gambled that fuel prices would skyrocket, so they bought all of their fuel for the next decade 10 years ago (not sure on the timeframe here, but you get the point).
So they're paying $2/gallon while everyone else is paying $3/gallon. Easy to be profitable under these conditions.
They could have been unlucky. Its just a roll of the dice. No one knows which way fuel prices are going.
So they're paying $2/gallon while everyone else is paying $3/gallon. Easy to be profitable under these conditions.
They could have been unlucky. Its just a roll of the dice. No one knows which way fuel prices are going.
Let's not forget they skimp on maintenance and pay off inspectors and are pretty much a flying Greyhound bus, but good for them for making a profit.
I heart southwest. It makes flying from BNA great.
Southwest used to be better
Bukharin: Southwest used to be better
Wow. Yeah, my only real complaint w/ Southwest is they by have the frumpiest FAs. Not that any of the US airlines really hire talent anymore. Thank god for foreign airlines...
Wow. Yeah, my only real complaint w/ Southwest is they by have the frumpiest FAs. Not that any of the US airlines really hire talent anymore. Thank god for foreign airlines...
Bukharin: Southwest used to be better
Scary. That's the exact same plane I flew on the other day. What? almost 35 years old at this point? YAY!
Scary. That's the exact same plane I flew on the other day. What? almost 35 years old at this point? YAY!
downstairs: They got lucky. They gambled that fuel prices would skyrocket, so they bought all of their fuel for the next decade 10 years ago (not sure on the timeframe here, but you get the point).
Luck? I'd call that foresight.
Luck? I'd call that foresight.
I can't fly Southwest anymore. They don't offer direct flights to L.A. from Seattle, and flying SWA a month after 9/11 soured me for life.
/Alaska Airlines, FTW.
/Alaska Airlines, FTW.
downstairs: Its just a roll of the dice
Population explosion, the development and industrialization of China and India, etc mean the price of resources is only going up. Its just a matter of how fast.
Population explosion, the development and industrialization of China and India, etc mean the price of resources is only going up. Its just a matter of how fast.
OK, so maybe they didn't lose money, but I refuse to agree that they don't suck.
/Hate flying Southwest.
//Gimme a friggin seat assignment!
/Hate flying Southwest.
//Gimme a friggin seat assignment!
I've only ever not flown Southwest about three times in my life. Cheapest no-frills airline around.
downstairs: Its just a roll of the dice. No one knows which way fuel prices are going.
I may be naive here, but you would think that the price of anything which has a limited amount would only go up.
I may be naive here, but you would think that the price of anything which has a limited amount would only go up.
They got lucky. They gambled that fuel prices would skyrocket, so they bought all of their fuel for the next decade
Hedging fuel contracts is such old news (Southwest has been doing it for at least 10 years) that it is malfeasance for the other airlines management NOT to have done it. When your business relies heavily on a volatile commodity, you add 1% to 3% to your commodity costs -- but guarantee costs when they rise.
It's widely used by other industries, including even small players like retail gas stations and farmers (who can guarantee prices ahead of time).
Hedging fuel contracts is such old news (Southwest has been doing it for at least 10 years) that it is malfeasance for the other airlines management NOT to have done it. When your business relies heavily on a volatile commodity, you add 1% to 3% to your commodity costs -- but guarantee costs when they rise.
It's widely used by other industries, including even small players like retail gas stations and farmers (who can guarantee prices ahead of time).
MrKraclenutz: Bukharin: Southwest used to be better
Scary. That's the exact same plane I flew on the other day. What? almost 35 years old at this point? YAY!
Well, the first 737 model came out in 1967. There have been plenty of modifications and new model releases to the thing though. Looks like they mostly fly 737-300's, which came out in 1981, and 737-700's, which came out in 1998.
Scary. That's the exact same plane I flew on the other day. What? almost 35 years old at this point? YAY!
Well, the first 737 model came out in 1967. There have been plenty of modifications and new model releases to the thing though. Looks like they mostly fly 737-300's, which came out in 1981, and 737-700's, which came out in 1998.
tomakaze: downstairs: They got lucky. They gambled that fuel prices would skyrocket, so they bought all of their fuel for the next decade 10 years ago (not sure on the timeframe here, but you get the point).
Luck? I'd call that foresight.
Exactly, it's not like there has ever been a prediction that the bottom would fall out of fuel prices. The predictions have always been high or higher. Locking in at a low rate was simply a practical (not even what I would call smart or ingenious) business decision that the idiots that "run" any other airline could have done themselves.
It's like the major airlines want to punish their customers then go crying when they go bankrupt.
Luck? I'd call that foresight.
Exactly, it's not like there has ever been a prediction that the bottom would fall out of fuel prices. The predictions have always been high or higher. Locking in at a low rate was simply a practical (not even what I would call smart or ingenious) business decision that the idiots that "run" any other airline could have done themselves.
It's like the major airlines want to punish their customers then go crying when they go bankrupt.
tomakaze: downstairs: They got lucky. They gambled that fuel prices would skyrocket, so they bought all of their fuel for the next decade 10 years ago (not sure on the timeframe here, but you get the point).
Luck? I'd call that foresight.
Exactly. It was a sound business move. Nothing lucky about seeing what could happen and insuring if it does it doesn't hurt you. It's what any smart businessman or investor would do.
Luck? I'd call that foresight.
Exactly. It was a sound business move. Nothing lucky about seeing what could happen and insuring if it does it doesn't hurt you. It's what any smart businessman or investor would do.
They get profit because of their business plan.
They only fly 1 type of plane. Maintenance and parts are all interchangable.
They only fly simple, and high traveled routes keeping planes full. They also sell these tickets at a lower price, therefore increasing capacity.
200 people paying 100 bucks is better than 50 people paying 175 bucks.
They have an ingenious business approach, and it's no wonder they are the only airline to continually make money.
They only fly 1 type of plane. Maintenance and parts are all interchangable.
They only fly simple, and high traveled routes keeping planes full. They also sell these tickets at a lower price, therefore increasing capacity.
200 people paying 100 bucks is better than 50 people paying 175 bucks.
They have an ingenious business approach, and it's no wonder they are the only airline to continually make money.
IdBeCrazyIf: downstairs: Its just a roll of the dice. No one knows which way fuel prices are going.
I may be naive here, but you would think that the price of anything which has a limited amount would only go up.
Easy to say that now, but when oil was $51/bbl, most "experts" expected it to go back down.
I may be naive here, but you would think that the price of anything which has a limited amount would only go up.
Easy to say that now, but when oil was $51/bbl, most "experts" expected it to go back down.
"Frumpiest FAs around"... I think not. Air Canada has an average age of about 50 and most of the hags tip the scales above 2 1/2 bills... Union pretty much drove that airline into the dirt. Flying used to be fun. Now Mapleflot has arranged for each flight to be its own particular circle of Hell.
I don't get why people always complain about southwest. everytime i've ever flown with them has been fantastic. which more than can be said about other airlines these days. so you're not assigned a seat. WHO GIVES A fark!
Any airline that gets me to where I'm going in one piece is my favorite. Not losing my bag is a bonus, but mostly it's the not dying thing I really like.
Heamer: Cheapest no-frills airline around.
Considering that they still give you soft drinks, snacks, and check two bags for free, I'd hardly call them no-frills.
Considering that they still give you soft drinks, snacks, and check two bags for free, I'd hardly call them no-frills.
So that means that have more money for snacks during the flight.
.
.
bhcompy: Exactly. It was a sound business move. Nothing lucky about seeing what could happen and insuring if it does it doesn't hurt you. It's what any smart reasonably competent businessman or investor would do.
Just a little tweak.
Just a little tweak.
Using hedging to "fix" your largest variable cost is not luck.
It's Business 201.
It's Business 201.
omnibus: Considering that they still give you soft drinks, snacks, and check two bags for free, I'd hardly call them no-frills.
Southwest isn't exactly the paragon of luxury, either.
Southwest isn't exactly the paragon of luxury, either.
downstairs:
They got lucky. They gambled that fuel prices would skyrocket, so they bought all of their fuel for the next decade 10 years ago (not sure on the timeframe here, but you get the point).
they didn't get lucky. they were one of the nasty and dastardly speculators that our elected officials (and other airline execs) and blaming for all our energy problems. they speculated using "voodoo" financial instruments called "derivatives."
hence, if you believe the media, our elected officials and some "experts", the money SWA made on hedging (read:speculating) in the commodity markets is ill gotten gains, derived at the expense of all "innocent" consumers and part of a major conspiracy.
obviously, we need to indict the executives at SWA and see they are thrown in jail for such dastardly behavior. oh, and we are all entitled to sue SWA to get our shares of the money they made by manipulating energy prices. we all would have been better off if they had not hedged and had instead gone into bankrputcy. no speculation, no voodoo financial instruments.
They got lucky. They gambled that fuel prices would skyrocket, so they bought all of their fuel for the next decade 10 years ago (not sure on the timeframe here, but you get the point).
they didn't get lucky. they were one of the nasty and dastardly speculators that our elected officials (and other airline execs) and blaming for all our energy problems. they speculated using "voodoo" financial instruments called "derivatives."
hence, if you believe the media, our elected officials and some "experts", the money SWA made on hedging (read:speculating) in the commodity markets is ill gotten gains, derived at the expense of all "innocent" consumers and part of a major conspiracy.
obviously, we need to indict the executives at SWA and see they are thrown in jail for such dastardly behavior. oh, and we are all entitled to sue SWA to get our shares of the money they made by manipulating energy prices. we all would have been better off if they had not hedged and had instead gone into bankrputcy. no speculation, no voodoo financial instruments.
flixter: Let's not forget they skimp on maintenance and pay off inspectors and are pretty much a flying Greyhound bus, but good for them for making a profit.
Flying deathtraps, those planes of theirs...
http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/luv.htm
Flying deathtraps, those planes of theirs...
http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/luv.htm
Psst....All airlines use future contracts to level out their fuel costs. As fuel costs go up so do the costs of the futures contracts. Southwest is profitable because they are allowed to cherry pick the best routes and undercut the major airlines prices. Let me know when Southwest is required to start carrying less than profitable routes like the major players and then I will be impressed with their business knowledge IF they can make a profit.
The one thing that really pisses me off about flying these days is that I can't carry a drink through security. It's not a huge inconvenience. I take an empty bottle through and fill up on the other side, or buy a drink, or whatever. But the total and utter stupidity of it makes me want to spork myself right in the eye.
I also hate the lines. Lines everywhere, especially in seatac (although I suspect seatac is worse than average). And the fact that the seats are all jammed together, and that I have to pay an exhorbitant amount of money for food anywhere in the airport or on a plane. And also the fact that all airlines suck. And that most airlines passengers (except me, of course) are total asshats.
/flying in two weeks so I need to start building up to it now
//thanks for letting me vent.
I also hate the lines. Lines everywhere, especially in seatac (although I suspect seatac is worse than average). And the fact that the seats are all jammed together, and that I have to pay an exhorbitant amount of money for food anywhere in the airport or on a plane. And also the fact that all airlines suck. And that most airlines passengers (except me, of course) are total asshats.
/flying in two weeks so I need to start building up to it now
//thanks for letting me vent.
Lumber Jack Off: I don't get why people always complain about southwest. everytime i've ever flown with them has been fantastic. which more than can be said about other airlines these days. so you're not assigned a seat. WHO GIVES A fark!
The luxury of the seat assignment means that you don't need to line up like cattle, hoping that you scored a low enough number to not be relegated to a middle seat.
What's the advantage to them to not assign seats? Does it somehow save money, or is it just a fun way for them to jerk around their passengers?
The luxury of the seat assignment means that you don't need to line up like cattle, hoping that you scored a low enough number to not be relegated to a middle seat.
What's the advantage to them to not assign seats? Does it somehow save money, or is it just a fun way for them to jerk around their passengers?
Southwest is successful because they are the most unionized of all the airlines in the US.
Omnivorous:
Hedging fuel contracts is such old news (Southwest has been doing it for at least 10 years) that it is malfeasance for the other airlines management NOT to have done it. When your business relies heavily on a volatile commodity, you add 1% to 3% to your commodity costs -- but guarantee costs when they rise.
amigo, "hedging" is the same as speculating. don't you listen to the media and to congress(or read certain threads on Fark)? speculators are the only reason oil prices are where they are today. nasty speculators are getting filthy rich manipulating energy markets.
are you encouraging speculation in the energy markets? you should be arrested and thrown in jail for such actions.
Hedging fuel contracts is such old news (Southwest has been doing it for at least 10 years) that it is malfeasance for the other airlines management NOT to have done it. When your business relies heavily on a volatile commodity, you add 1% to 3% to your commodity costs -- but guarantee costs when they rise.
amigo, "hedging" is the same as speculating. don't you listen to the media and to congress(or read certain threads on Fark)? speculators are the only reason oil prices are where they are today. nasty speculators are getting filthy rich manipulating energy markets.
are you encouraging speculation in the energy markets? you should be arrested and thrown in jail for such actions.
Their fuel hedging was a gamble. They hedged that it would be $50 a barrel back when it was only $20 a barrel. Yes, oil prices tend to rise but this decision could have easily backfired on them if the rise had not nearly been as dramatic. Remember, when you lock in a price, you have to pay it regardless of the spot market price so its a great way to make money or lose money. I think more airlines could be a little more aggressive in their fuel hedging (since most hedge around 25% or less from what I understand). However, back when they signed these fuel contracts, I would have been very nervous to lock up that much of my fuel at a price at least double what the present market was.
The only problem I have with Southwest is that the seats and carpet etc are all original equipment in a 30 year old plane... kind of feel like you are riding in Grandpa's 79 Town Car... It is much nicer in the money-losing Air Canada brand new Airbusses.
Omnivorous: They got lucky. They gambled that fuel prices would skyrocket, so they bought all of their fuel for the next decade
Hedging fuel contracts is such old news (Southwest has been doing it for at least 10 years) that it is malfeasance for the other airlines management NOT to have done it. When your business relies heavily on a volatile commodity, you add 1% to 3% to your commodity costs -- but guarantee costs when they rise.
It's widely used by other industries, including even small players like retail gas stations and farmers (who can guarantee prices ahead of time).
wow, i wrote almost this same exact statement word for word.. then i realized it was fark and i simplified it.
/get out of my brain
Hedging fuel contracts is such old news (Southwest has been doing it for at least 10 years) that it is malfeasance for the other airlines management NOT to have done it. When your business relies heavily on a volatile commodity, you add 1% to 3% to your commodity costs -- but guarantee costs when they rise.
It's widely used by other industries, including even small players like retail gas stations and farmers (who can guarantee prices ahead of time).
wow, i wrote almost this same exact statement word for word.. then i realized it was fark and i simplified it.
/get out of my brain
BobNesta420: /Hate Southwest
//Gimme a friggin middle seat assignment when I book a month in advance!
FTFY
//Gimme a friggin middle seat assignment when I book a month in advance!
FTFY
holeinmybucket: The only problem I have with Southwest is that the seats and carpet etc are all original equipment in a 30 year old plane... kind of feel like you are riding in Grandpa's 79 Town Car... It is much nicer in the money-losing Air Canada brand new Airbusses.
Boeing > Airbus
Boeing > Airbus
Daedalus27: Their fuel hedging was a gamble. They hedged that it would be $50 a barrel back when it was only $20 a barrel. Yes, oil prices tend to rise but this decision could have easily backfired on them if the rise had not nearly been as dramatic. Remember, when you lock in a price, you have to pay it regardless of the spot market price so its a great way to make money or lose money. I think more airlines could be a little more aggressive in their fuel hedging (since most hedge around 25% or less from what I understand). However, back when they signed these fuel contracts, I would have been very nervous to lock up that much of my fuel at a price at least double what the present market was.
they would pay more but their price would be fixed. its much easier to budget around a fixed price than a constantly fluctuating price
they would pay more but their price would be fixed. its much easier to budget around a fixed price than a constantly fluctuating price
downstairs: They could have been unlucky. Its just a roll of the dice. No one knows which way fuel prices are going.
LOL
LOL
omnibus:
Considering that they still give you soft drinks, snacks, and check two bags for free, I'd hardly call them no-frills.
Is it bad that I remember when none of these could be considered "frills"
/hates checking bags
//carry-on or I don't need it
Considering that they still give you soft drinks, snacks, and check two bags for free, I'd hardly call them no-frills.
Is it bad that I remember when none of these could be considered "frills"
/hates checking bags
//carry-on or I don't need it
BobNesta420: Lumber Jack Off: I don't get why people always complain about southwest. everytime i've ever flown with them has been fantastic. which more than can be said about other airlines these days. so you're not assigned a seat. WHO GIVES A fark!
The luxury of the seat assignment means that you don't need to line up like cattle, hoping that you scored a low enough number to not be relegated to a middle seat.
What's the advantage to them to not assign seats? Does it somehow save money, or is it just a fun way for them to jerk around their passengers?
One word, maybe two; Over-booking. Can't overbook if you assign seats.
The luxury of the seat assignment means that you don't need to line up like cattle, hoping that you scored a low enough number to not be relegated to a middle seat.
What's the advantage to them to not assign seats? Does it somehow save money, or is it just a fun way for them to jerk around their passengers?
One word, maybe two; Over-booking. Can't overbook if you assign seats.
Rapmaster2000: Southwest is successful because they are the most unionized of all the airlines in the US.
I just had to requote this for all the "unions are all evil" people.
Southwest is one of the most union airlines and it is the most successful.
Like all thing some unions are good and some unions are bad, people should not live in such black and white false dichotomy world.
I just had to requote this for all the "unions are all evil" people.
Southwest is one of the most union airlines and it is the most successful.
Like all thing some unions are good and some unions are bad, people should not live in such black and white false dichotomy world.
The_Sponge: holeinmybucket: The only problem I have with Southwest is that the seats and carpet etc are all original equipment in a 30 year old plane... kind of feel like you are riding in Grandpa's 79 Town Car... It is much nicer in the money-losing Air Canada brand new Airbusses.
Boeing > Airbus
Whatever. Ford is way better than Chevy.
Boeing > Airbus
Whatever. Ford is way better than Chevy.
If their fuel gamble hadn't paid off so spectacularly, they'd probably be leading the charge to the bottom of the suck-fest.
Heamer: omnibus: Considering that they still give you soft drinks, snacks, and check two bags for free, I'd hardly call them no-frills.
Southwest isn't exactly the paragon of luxury, either.
It's sort of like riding biatch in a car.
Southwest isn't exactly the paragon of luxury, either.
It's sort of like riding biatch in a car.
BobNesta420
What's the advantage to them to not assign seats? Does it somehow save money, or is it just a fun way for them to jerk around their passengers?
I've wondered that too. My only guess is that it saves gate attendents' time in that they don't have to service dozens of seat change request. It also makes reservations a bit more simple. You don't need to juggle seat assignments for rebooking if you don't do them.
What's the advantage to them to not assign seats? Does it somehow save money, or is it just a fun way for them to jerk around their passengers?
I've wondered that too. My only guess is that it saves gate attendents' time in that they don't have to service dozens of seat change request. It also makes reservations a bit more simple. You don't need to juggle seat assignments for rebooking if you don't do them.
There are few industries in which I think the supplier actively hates its customer but airlines take top billing for it.
Other than screwing people I can't see the purpose in charging 2-3x more for a non-stop flight when a connection through that destination is so much cheaper. Then they penalize you for not taking the connection even though it would have cost them more to operate it under the guise of "lost revenue". How did they lose any revenue, you didn't even use all of the service you purchased?!?!
Airlines don't charge enough to cover their costs then blame it on the customer. (insert WTF cat here) What farking idiots, then they wonder why they're going out of business and everyone hates them.
/rant off, sorry :) There is a thread on airliners.net of some gate agent in Cleveland gleefully gloating over his having caught a family of four using hidden city tickets to save some scratch and whacked them an extra $1800 to get home. (The dipshiat then went on the argue that they airline *lost* money because the airline canceled the rest of their itinerary and sold the seats to someone else without refunding the original customer's money.. dumber than a block)
Other than screwing people I can't see the purpose in charging 2-3x more for a non-stop flight when a connection through that destination is so much cheaper. Then they penalize you for not taking the connection even though it would have cost them more to operate it under the guise of "lost revenue". How did they lose any revenue, you didn't even use all of the service you purchased?!?!
Airlines don't charge enough to cover their costs then blame it on the customer. (insert WTF cat here) What farking idiots, then they wonder why they're going out of business and everyone hates them.
/rant off, sorry :) There is a thread on airliners.net of some gate agent in Cleveland gleefully gloating over his having caught a family of four using hidden city tickets to save some scratch and whacked them an extra $1800 to get home. (The dipshiat then went on the argue that they airline *lost* money because the airline canceled the rest of their itinerary and sold the seats to someone else without refunding the original customer's money.. dumber than a block)
Quel said:
Easy to say that now, but when oil was $51/bbl, most "experts" expected it to go back down.
Seems to me that you need to get better "experts"... since the "experts" that you're listening to, don't actually have any expertise. At all.
Easy to say that now, but when oil was $51/bbl, most "experts" expected it to go back down.
Seems to me that you need to get better "experts"... since the "experts" that you're listening to, don't actually have any expertise. At all.
Corvus: Rapmaster2000: Southwest is successful because they are the most unionized of all the airlines in the US.
I just had to requote this for all the "unions are all evil" people.
Southwest is one of the most union airlines and it is the most successful.
Like all thing some unions are good and some unions are bad, people should not live in such black and white false dichotomy world.
People don't understand that management matters. Southwest has always had excellent management. It's funny when everyone rushes into a GM thread to blame the unions, when the crux of the problem is bad management and it will continue to be bad management.
I just had to requote this for all the "unions are all evil" people.
Southwest is one of the most union airlines and it is the most successful.
Like all thing some unions are good and some unions are bad, people should not live in such black and white false dichotomy world.
People don't understand that management matters. Southwest has always had excellent management. It's funny when everyone rushes into a GM thread to blame the unions, when the crux of the problem is bad management and it will continue to be bad management.
Rapmaster2000: Southwest is successful because they are the most unionized of all the airlines in the US.
That should get more than it's fair share of responses.
That should get more than it's fair share of responses.
Heamer: Southwest isn't exactly the paragon of luxury, either.
And for that i am thankfull, When i fly the objective it to get to where i am going, not to see if i can enter a bidding war with others and see if the company will shine prefrental treatment on somebody willing to pay more. SW keeps those with the bloated sence of self entitlment on other airlines because they dont buy the BS most folks spew.
/Whatever they are doing, Keep doing it.
And for that i am thankfull, When i fly the objective it to get to where i am going, not to see if i can enter a bidding war with others and see if the company will shine prefrental treatment on somebody willing to pay more. SW keeps those with the bloated sence of self entitlment on other airlines because they dont buy the BS most folks spew.
/Whatever they are doing, Keep doing it.
downstairs: They got lucky. They gambled that fuel prices would skyrocket, so they bought all of their fuel for the next decade 10 years ago (not sure on the timeframe here, but you get the point).
So they're paying $2/gallon while everyone else is paying $3/gallon. Easy to be profitable under these conditions.
They could have been unlucky. Its just a roll of the dice. No one knows which way fuel prices are going.
According to most sources, they buy futures in order to smooth out fluctuations in fuel costs, which is smart. They got lucky the same way professional poker players got lucky, which is by being better than everyone else.
So they're paying $2/gallon while everyone else is paying $3/gallon. Easy to be profitable under these conditions.
They could have been unlucky. Its just a roll of the dice. No one knows which way fuel prices are going.
According to most sources, they buy futures in order to smooth out fluctuations in fuel costs, which is smart. They got lucky the same way professional poker players got lucky, which is by being better than everyone else.
Lumber Jack Off: I don't get why people always complain about southwest. everytime i've ever flown with them has been fantastic. which more than can be said about other airlines these days. so you're not assigned a seat. WHO GIVES A fark!
"Oh My God, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !"
---Me finding out I have to go on business to a city that Southwest doesn't fly to, and I'm forced to fly American or Continental.
I'll give up assigned seating any day for ... you know ... a cheaper flight that actually arrives and departs on time and employees that treat you with a modicum of respect.
"Oh My God, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !"
---Me finding out I have to go on business to a city that Southwest doesn't fly to, and I'm forced to fly American or Continental.
I'll give up assigned seating any day for ... you know ... a cheaper flight that actually arrives and departs on time and employees that treat you with a modicum of respect.
NightOwl2255: One word, maybe two; Over-booking. Can't overbook if you assign seats.
Yes, because other airlines never overbook.
/never
Yes, because other airlines never overbook.
/never
Southwest's prices have been skyrocketing so much the past months that it's barely even a bargain to ride them anymore.
I fly from Albany to Washington and back almost every month and what used to cost $60 one way now costs more than twice that ($130, 140 and that's just if you're booking tickets a good 3 or 4 months in advance, which I am. And not everyone can do that ... most people can't do that.).
/Okay, so it's still a bargain, but it's nothing compared to what it used to be.
I fly from Albany to Washington and back almost every month and what used to cost $60 one way now costs more than twice that ($130, 140 and that's just if you're booking tickets a good 3 or 4 months in advance, which I am. And not everyone can do that ... most people can't do that.).
/Okay, so it's still a bargain, but it's nothing compared to what it used to be.
CapitolG: And for that i am thankfull, When i fly the objective it to get to where i am going, not to see if i can enter a bidding war with others and see if the company will shine prefrental treatment on somebody willing to pay more. SW keeps those with the bloated sence of self entitlment on other airlines because they dont buy the BS most folks spew.
/Whatever they are doing, Keep doing it.
Exactly. Hence my initial comment.
/Whatever they are doing, Keep doing it.
Exactly. Hence my initial comment.
Rapmaster2000: Corvus: Rapmaster2000: Southwest is successful because they are the most unionized of all the airlines in the US.
I just had to requote this for all the "unions are all evil" people.
Southwest is one of the most union airlines and it is the most successful.
Like all thing some unions are good and some unions are bad, people should not live in such black and white false dichotomy world.
People don't understand that management matters. Southwest has always had excellent management. It's funny when everyone rushes into a GM thread to blame the unions, when the crux of the problem is bad management and it will continue to be bad management.
its a two way street. the unions seem happy to work with swa and swa does a good job of keeping the labor happy. the pilots dont make the most in the industry yet they dont biatch about it, which isnt typical for labor relations in heavily unionized industries
I just had to requote this for all the "unions are all evil" people.
Southwest is one of the most union airlines and it is the most successful.
Like all thing some unions are good and some unions are bad, people should not live in such black and white false dichotomy world.
People don't understand that management matters. Southwest has always had excellent management. It's funny when everyone rushes into a GM thread to blame the unions, when the crux of the problem is bad management and it will continue to be bad management.
its a two way street. the unions seem happy to work with swa and swa does a good job of keeping the labor happy. the pilots dont make the most in the industry yet they dont biatch about it, which isnt typical for labor relations in heavily unionized industries
flixter: Let's not forget they skimp on maintenance and pay off inspectors and are pretty much a flying Greyhound bus, but good for them for making a profit.
CITATION NEEDED
CITATION NEEDED
Southwest won life's lottery. Their prosperity should be transferred to the poor underprivileged airlines like Delta and United that never got a fair chance.
MrKraclenutz: Bukharin: Southwest used to be better
Scary. That's the exact same plane I flew on the other day. What? almost 35 years old at this point? YAY!
CITATION NEEDED
This is the last time I am doing this but for fark sake people...if you are going to pull out an accusation, back it up.
Scary. That's the exact same plane I flew on the other day. What? almost 35 years old at this point? YAY!
CITATION NEEDED
This is the last time I am doing this but for fark sake people...if you are going to pull out an accusation, back it up.
NightOwl2255
One word, maybe two; Over-booking. Can't overbook if you assign seats.
Wow. Just wow. Either you're trolling, or you have absolutely no idea how the airline industry works. Over-booking has nothing to do with seat assignments, and everythign to do with how many seats are on the plane. Just because they don't assign the seats doesn't mean they don't know how many are on the plane.
Over-booking is a bastard process that the airlines have used fo ryears to boost a little bit of profit; I've always wondered why they feel like they need to overbook; I mean, it's not like if someone doesn't show up for the flight, they don't pay for the seat!
/I hate airlines
//Delta is apparently the worst. My mom's been a travel agent for 35 years, and whenever I ask her abotu work, the first sentence out of her mount if "Delta airlines is the worst farking thing that ever happened in the history of mankind", or somethign along those lines...
One word, maybe two; Over-booking. Can't overbook if you assign seats.
Wow. Just wow. Either you're trolling, or you have absolutely no idea how the airline industry works. Over-booking has nothing to do with seat assignments, and everythign to do with how many seats are on the plane. Just because they don't assign the seats doesn't mean they don't know how many are on the plane.
Over-booking is a bastard process that the airlines have used fo ryears to boost a little bit of profit; I've always wondered why they feel like they need to overbook; I mean, it's not like if someone doesn't show up for the flight, they don't pay for the seat!
/I hate airlines
//Delta is apparently the worst. My mom's been a travel agent for 35 years, and whenever I ask her abotu work, the first sentence out of her mount if "Delta airlines is the worst farking thing that ever happened in the history of mankind", or somethign along those lines...
Southwest is the Wal-Mart of the skies, great business plan, pays their employees a low, but fair wage (They work there don't they) and they rely on volume.
My question is why does everyone love Southwest and hate the Evil Wal-Mart?
My question is why does everyone love Southwest and hate the Evil Wal-Mart?
msimon8: NightOwl2255: One word, maybe two; Over-booking. Can't overbook if you assign seats.
Yes, because other airlines never overbook.
/never
Southwest overbooks just about every sold out flight. As much as 10% overbook. You can't overbook a "sold seat". If I log onto AA.com, reserve and pay for seat 12B, it's mine. You book on Iflyswa.com, you have no way of knowing if you will actually get a seat until your ass is in the seat the the plane is in the air.
Yes, because other airlines never overbook.
/never
Southwest overbooks just about every sold out flight. As much as 10% overbook. You can't overbook a "sold seat". If I log onto AA.com, reserve and pay for seat 12B, it's mine. You book on Iflyswa.com, you have no way of knowing if you will actually get a seat until your ass is in the seat the the plane is in the air.
bhcompy: Rapmaster2000: Corvus: Rapmaster2000: Southwest is successful because they are the most unionized of all the airlines in the US.
I just had to requote this for all the "unions are all evil" people.
Southwest is one of the most union airlines and it is the most successful.
Like all thing some unions are good and some unions are bad, people should not live in such black and white false dichotomy world.
People don't understand that management matters. Southwest has always had excellent management. It's funny when everyone rushes into a GM thread to blame the unions, when the crux of the problem is bad management and it will continue to be bad management.
its a two way street. the unions seem happy to work with swa and swa does a good job of keeping the labor happy. the pilots dont make the most in the industry yet they dont biatch about it, which isnt typical for labor relations in heavily unionized industries
Southwest has never laid anyone off and they hope to never have to do so. After 9/11, management worked hard to maintain that pledge and it paid off. Their workers respect them.
I just had to requote this for all the "unions are all evil" people.
Southwest is one of the most union airlines and it is the most successful.
Like all thing some unions are good and some unions are bad, people should not live in such black and white false dichotomy world.
People don't understand that management matters. Southwest has always had excellent management. It's funny when everyone rushes into a GM thread to blame the unions, when the crux of the problem is bad management and it will continue to be bad management.
its a two way street. the unions seem happy to work with swa and swa does a good job of keeping the labor happy. the pilots dont make the most in the industry yet they dont biatch about it, which isnt typical for labor relations in heavily unionized industries
Southwest has never laid anyone off and they hope to never have to do so. After 9/11, management worked hard to maintain that pledge and it paid off. Their workers respect them.
Couple this with with 100lb asian triathlete girls in 2oz max clothing and you have one fuel-efficient operation!
Might I just add that if you're not a lazy slacker who has access to a computer and internet connection, non-assigned seating is actually the greatest thing in the world.
You don't have to sit next to the 400 lbs. lady with the fat folds hanging over your armrests for 4 hours if you don't want to. I've noticed automated airline reservation systems seem to have this uncanny knack of sitting me next to Jabba the Hutt on any flight over 3 hours.
If you're traveling with a group of family or friends, you don't have to jump through hoops or go up and down asking strangers to swap seats if you want to sit together.
Or, like me, if you're a misanthropic loner who just wants to quietly read without being seated next to next to some blowhard salesman that wants to tell you all about his line of work, you can just immediately head towards the very back of the plane and isolate yourself.
You don't have to sit next to the 400 lbs. lady with the fat folds hanging over your armrests for 4 hours if you don't want to. I've noticed automated airline reservation systems seem to have this uncanny knack of sitting me next to Jabba the Hutt on any flight over 3 hours.
If you're traveling with a group of family or friends, you don't have to jump through hoops or go up and down asking strangers to swap seats if you want to sit together.
Or, like me, if you're a misanthropic loner who just wants to quietly read without being seated next to next to some blowhard salesman that wants to tell you all about his line of work, you can just immediately head towards the very back of the plane and isolate yourself.
Let me make this perfectly clear for the people that don't get it. Southwests competitive advantage is not hedging fuel. All airlines do it.
Southwests competitive advantage is the FAA. You see, the FAA requires the United and Northwests of the world to maintain a presence in smaller markets and on less profitable routes. Southwest does not have to meet those same requirements for some reason (their size and a motive to increase competitiveness). What this does is create a situation where the major airlines are not allowed to offset losses in smaller less profitable markets (which the FAA requires) because Southwest comes in and undercuts price in the larger markets. It is a BS model that seems more competitive but ends up screwing us all.
Go ahead and keep on thinking that Southwest just does things better though...even if it isn't true. They may be smart for taking advantage of a loophole and making huge profits running substandard equipment on highly profitable routes and creating a cult of personality to keep labor costs low...but they don't do things better than the bigger airlines. They are simply the beneficiaries of government intrusion into the markets.
Southwests competitive advantage is the FAA. You see, the FAA requires the United and Northwests of the world to maintain a presence in smaller markets and on less profitable routes. Southwest does not have to meet those same requirements for some reason (their size and a motive to increase competitiveness). What this does is create a situation where the major airlines are not allowed to offset losses in smaller less profitable markets (which the FAA requires) because Southwest comes in and undercuts price in the larger markets. It is a BS model that seems more competitive but ends up screwing us all.
Go ahead and keep on thinking that Southwest just does things better though...even if it isn't true. They may be smart for taking advantage of a loophole and making huge profits running substandard equipment on highly profitable routes and creating a cult of personality to keep labor costs low...but they don't do things better than the bigger airlines. They are simply the beneficiaries of government intrusion into the markets.
NightOwl2255: One word, maybe two; Over-booking. Can't overbook if you assign seats.
hhahaha
hhahaha
NightOwl2255
You can't overbook a "sold seat". If I log onto AA.com, reserve and pay for seat 12B, it's mine.
Who the fark told you that? If they've oversold the plane and they need to bump someone, they may just bump you. They'll compensate, yeah, but nothign guarantees that seat.
You can't overbook a "sold seat". If I log onto AA.com, reserve and pay for seat 12B, it's mine.
Who the fark told you that? If they've oversold the plane and they need to bump someone, they may just bump you. They'll compensate, yeah, but nothign guarantees that seat.
hillste: Southwest is the Wal-Mart of the skies, great business plan, pays their employees a low, but fair wage (They work there don't they) and they rely on volume.
My question is why does everyone love Southwest and hate the Evil Wal-Mart?
According to this interesting article from Wired (and from what I've read in biz school because Harvard Business Review loves SWA) Southwest has the highest paid workers.
Network carriers have railed for decades about the power of their employee unions. But guess who's the most unionized carrier in the nation? Southwest, of course. The airline says that 87 percent of its employees belong to a union. Southwest has never had a strike, and now that the network carriers have whacked away at salaries and benefits, Southwest staffers are generally the highest paid in the industry. But since Southwest has about 30 percent fewer employees per aircraft than its network competitors, it has the lowest non-fuel C.A.S.M. (cost per available seat mile) of any of the major carriers.
My question is why does everyone love Southwest and hate the Evil Wal-Mart?
According to this interesting article from Wired (and from what I've read in biz school because Harvard Business Review loves SWA) Southwest has the highest paid workers.
Network carriers have railed for decades about the power of their employee unions. But guess who's the most unionized carrier in the nation? Southwest, of course. The airline says that 87 percent of its employees belong to a union. Southwest has never had a strike, and now that the network carriers have whacked away at salaries and benefits, Southwest staffers are generally the highest paid in the industry. But since Southwest has about 30 percent fewer employees per aircraft than its network competitors, it has the lowest non-fuel C.A.S.M. (cost per available seat mile) of any of the major carriers.
hillste: Southwest is the Wal-Mart of the skies, great business plan, pays their employees a low, but fair wage (They work there don't they) and they rely on volume.
My question is why does everyone love Southwest and hate the Evil Wal-Mart?
grocery:
-kroger, safeway, albertsons all value customer service, but you pay a slightly higher price for that
-walmart customer service is asstastic
airlines:
-delta, american, us airways, etc have shiatty customer service and sometimes vastly higher prices
-southwest customer service is very satisfying
My question is why does everyone love Southwest and hate the Evil Wal-Mart?
grocery:
-kroger, safeway, albertsons all value customer service, but you pay a slightly higher price for that
-walmart customer service is asstastic
airlines:
-delta, american, us airways, etc have shiatty customer service and sometimes vastly higher prices
-southwest customer service is very satisfying
NightOwl2255: If I log onto AA.com, reserve and pay for seat 12B, it's mine.
All airlines overbook. Not everyone pre-books seats either by choice or because they aren't allowed to at the time of purchase. Seat assignment and overbooking are not related.
I have, on rare occasions, seen two people with a boarding pass for the same seat. I don't think that's related to overbooking unless the airline was feeling exceptionally prickish, but it's always amusing.
All airlines overbook. Not everyone pre-books seats either by choice or because they aren't allowed to at the time of purchase. Seat assignment and overbooking are not related.
I have, on rare occasions, seen two people with a boarding pass for the same seat. I don't think that's related to overbooking unless the airline was feeling exceptionally prickish, but it's always amusing.
Do you think all the other Airlines look at Southwest like that one genius in your class who was always blowing the curve on tests because he'd get them all right?
NightOwl2255: BobNesta420: Lumber Jack Off: I don't get why people always complain about southwest. everytime i've ever flown with them has been fantastic. which more than can be said about other airlines these days. so you're not assigned a seat. WHO GIVES A fark!
The luxury of the seat assignment means that you don't need to line up like cattle, hoping that you scored a low enough number to not be relegated to a middle seat.
What's the advantage to them to not assign seats? Does it somehow save money, or is it just a fun way for them to jerk around their passengers?
One word, maybe two; Over-booking. Can't overbook if you assign seats.
Uhm ... you don't fly much, do you?
The luxury of the seat assignment means that you don't need to line up like cattle, hoping that you scored a low enough number to not be relegated to a middle seat.
What's the advantage to them to not assign seats? Does it somehow save money, or is it just a fun way for them to jerk around their passengers?
One word, maybe two; Over-booking. Can't overbook if you assign seats.
Uhm ... you don't fly much, do you?
pendy575: Let me make this perfectly clear for the people that don't get it. Southwests competitive advantage is not hedging fuel. All airlines do it.
Southwests competitive advantage is the FAA. You see, the FAA requires the United and Northwests of the world to maintain a presence in smaller markets and on less profitable routes. Southwest does not have to meet those same requirements for some reason (their size and a motive to increase competitiveness). What this does is create a situation where the major airlines are not allowed to offset losses in smaller less profitable markets (which the FAA requires) because Southwest comes in and undercuts price in the larger markets. It is a BS model that seems more competitive but ends up screwing us all.
Yeah, this is all bullshiat, but it sounds cool.
Southwests competitive advantage is the FAA. You see, the FAA requires the United and Northwests of the world to maintain a presence in smaller markets and on less profitable routes. Southwest does not have to meet those same requirements for some reason (their size and a motive to increase competitiveness). What this does is create a situation where the major airlines are not allowed to offset losses in smaller less profitable markets (which the FAA requires) because Southwest comes in and undercuts price in the larger markets. It is a BS model that seems more competitive but ends up screwing us all.
Yeah, this is all bullshiat, but it sounds cool.
Rapmaster2000
Unfortunately it is all true.
Unfortunately it is all true.
jaydawg53: NightOwl2255
One word, maybe two; Over-booking. Can't overbook if you assign seats.
Wow. Just wow. Either you're trolling, or you have absolutely no idea how the airline industry works. Over-booking has nothing to do with seat assignments, and everything to do with how many seats are on the plane. Just because they don't assign the seats doesn't mean they don't know how many are on the plane.
Over-booking is a bastard process that the airlines have used fo ryears to boost a little bit of profit; I've always wondered why they feel like they need to overbook; I mean, it's not like if someone doesn't show up for the flight, they don't pay for the seat!
/I hate airlines
//Delta is apparently the worst. My mom's been a travel agent for 35 years, and whenever I ask her abotu work, the first sentence out of her mount if "Delta airlines is the worst farking thing that ever happened in the history of mankind", or somethign along those lines...
All major airlines have guaranteed seating. If you reserve and pay for a seat, it's yours and you will not be bumped. If you are flying standby or have a non-assigned ticket you may not get a seat of course. There are NO guaranteed seats on SW. Southwest depends on no shows, or someone is getting bumped.
One word, maybe two; Over-booking. Can't overbook if you assign seats.
Wow. Just wow. Either you're trolling, or you have absolutely no idea how the airline industry works. Over-booking has nothing to do with seat assignments, and everything to do with how many seats are on the plane. Just because they don't assign the seats doesn't mean they don't know how many are on the plane.
Over-booking is a bastard process that the airlines have used fo ryears to boost a little bit of profit; I've always wondered why they feel like they need to overbook; I mean, it's not like if someone doesn't show up for the flight, they don't pay for the seat!
/I hate airlines
//Delta is apparently the worst. My mom's been a travel agent for 35 years, and whenever I ask her abotu work, the first sentence out of her mount if "Delta airlines is the worst farking thing that ever happened in the history of mankind", or somethign along those lines...
All major airlines have guaranteed seating. If you reserve and pay for a seat, it's yours and you will not be bumped. If you are flying standby or have a non-assigned ticket you may not get a seat of course. There are NO guaranteed seats on SW. Southwest depends on no shows, or someone is getting bumped.
pendy575: Rapmaster2000
Unfortunately it is all true.
Source?
Unfortunately it is all true.
Source?
pendy575: Let me make this perfectly clear for the people that don't get it. Southwests competitive advantage is not hedging fuel. All airlines do it.
Southwests competitive advantage is the FAA. You see, the FAA requires the United and Northwests of the world to maintain a presence in smaller markets and on less profitable routes. Southwest does not have to meet those same requirements for some reason (their size and a motive to increase competitiveness). What this does is create a situation where the major airlines are not allowed to offset losses in smaller less profitable markets (which the FAA requires) because Southwest comes in and undercuts price in the larger markets. It is a BS model that seems more competitive but ends up screwing us all.
Go ahead and keep on thinking that Southwest just does things better though...even if it isn't true. They may be smart for taking advantage of a loophole and making huge profits running substandard equipment on highly profitable routes and creating a cult of personality to keep labor costs low...but they don't do things better than the bigger airlines. They are simply the beneficiaries of government intrusion into the markets.
SWA tends to fly out of the 2nd and 3rd tier hubs in a region, similar to what jet blue does out west, and it is a large cost saver as well. this is also a time saver for fliers. it may take you an hour alone to get through security at LAX, but john wayne will take much less and ontario or long beach airport is about 5minutes from dropoff to gate.
Southwests competitive advantage is the FAA. You see, the FAA requires the United and Northwests of the world to maintain a presence in smaller markets and on less profitable routes. Southwest does not have to meet those same requirements for some reason (their size and a motive to increase competitiveness). What this does is create a situation where the major airlines are not allowed to offset losses in smaller less profitable markets (which the FAA requires) because Southwest comes in and undercuts price in the larger markets. It is a BS model that seems more competitive but ends up screwing us all.
Go ahead and keep on thinking that Southwest just does things better though...even if it isn't true. They may be smart for taking advantage of a loophole and making huge profits running substandard equipment on highly profitable routes and creating a cult of personality to keep labor costs low...but they don't do things better than the bigger airlines. They are simply the beneficiaries of government intrusion into the markets.
SWA tends to fly out of the 2nd and 3rd tier hubs in a region, similar to what jet blue does out west, and it is a large cost saver as well. this is also a time saver for fliers. it may take you an hour alone to get through security at LAX, but john wayne will take much less and ontario or long beach airport is about 5minutes from dropoff to gate.
pendy575: Go ahead and keep on thinking that Southwest just does things better though...even if it isn't true. They may be smart for taking advantage of a loophole and making huge profits running substandard equipment on highly profitable routes and creating a cult of personality to keep labor costs low...but they don't do things better than the bigger airlines. They are simply the beneficiaries of government intrusion into the markets.
What airline do you work for?
As to the first part of your post I can't speak specifics but would suggest that the Essential Air Service program helps to level that playing field.
As to the above quote... What about the Boeing 737 is substandard? It's only the best selling aircraft in the world. And having happy employees who love their jobs and don't mind working for a little less for the benefit of everyone is horrible? And at this point I'd say they do know how to do things better than the majors especially when it comes to charging a fare that actually covers their costs.
What airline do you work for?
As to the first part of your post I can't speak specifics but would suggest that the Essential Air Service program helps to level that playing field.
As to the above quote... What about the Boeing 737 is substandard? It's only the best selling aircraft in the world. And having happy employees who love their jobs and don't mind working for a little less for the benefit of everyone is horrible? And at this point I'd say they do know how to do things better than the majors especially when it comes to charging a fare that actually covers their costs.
nerfball: Omnivorous:
Hedging fuel contracts is such old news (Southwest has been doing it for at least 10 years) that it is malfeasance for the other airlines management NOT to have done it. When your business relies heavily on a volatile commodity, you add 1% to 3% to your commodity costs -- but guarantee costs when they rise.
amigo, "hedging" is the same as speculating. don't you listen to the media and to congress(or read certain threads on Fark)? speculators are the only reason oil prices are where they are today. nasty speculators are getting filthy rich manipulating energy markets.
are you encouraging speculation in the energy markets? you should be arrested and thrown in jail for such actions.
Future contracts are the spawn of SATAN!
Hedging fuel contracts is such old news (Southwest has been doing it for at least 10 years) that it is malfeasance for the other airlines management NOT to have done it. When your business relies heavily on a volatile commodity, you add 1% to 3% to your commodity costs -- but guarantee costs when they rise.
amigo, "hedging" is the same as speculating. don't you listen to the media and to congress(or read certain threads on Fark)? speculators are the only reason oil prices are where they are today. nasty speculators are getting filthy rich manipulating energy markets.
are you encouraging speculation in the energy markets? you should be arrested and thrown in jail for such actions.
Future contracts are the spawn of SATAN!
NightOwl2255:
Southwest overbooks just about every sold out flight. As much as 10% overbook. You can't overbook a "sold seat". If I log onto AA.com, reserve and pay for seat 12B, it's mine. You book on Iflyswa.com, you have no way of knowing if you will actually get a seat until your ass is in the seat the the plane is in the air.
Really? I flew Southwest more times than I could count this year and never once did I find an overbooked flight. And many of the flights were sold out. Not to mention the fact that they were all around holidays or high traveling times.
The one time I flew United, the flight was overbooked and took an hour to get off the ground. Not to mention the fact that it was a prop plane and they didn't feed us because of "time constraints." That pretty much sealed the Southwest deal for me. Never flying any other company, ever again.
Southwest overbooks just about every sold out flight. As much as 10% overbook. You can't overbook a "sold seat". If I log onto AA.com, reserve and pay for seat 12B, it's mine. You book on Iflyswa.com, you have no way of knowing if you will actually get a seat until your ass is in the seat the the plane is in the air.
Really? I flew Southwest more times than I could count this year and never once did I find an overbooked flight. And many of the flights were sold out. Not to mention the fact that they were all around holidays or high traveling times.
The one time I flew United, the flight was overbooked and took an hour to get off the ground. Not to mention the fact that it was a prop plane and they didn't feed us because of "time constraints." That pretty much sealed the Southwest deal for me. Never flying any other company, ever again.
Rapmaster2000
Simply look into the demise of Aloha air. Small airline serving the islands. Forced out of business the second the FAA stepped in and required them to carry a less profitable route to the mainland. A route required of larger airlines all along by the way.
Aloha Aloha airlines.
Same thing would happen to the vauted SW business geniuses if the same were to happen to them.
Simply look into the demise of Aloha air. Small airline serving the islands. Forced out of business the second the FAA stepped in and required them to carry a less profitable route to the mainland. A route required of larger airlines all along by the way.
Aloha Aloha airlines.
Same thing would happen to the vauted SW business geniuses if the same were to happen to them.
If they only flew to Atlanta from Bur or even LAX, then would they be the best airline.
/airtran gets my $$$
/airtran gets my $$$
Magorn: Do you think all the other Airlines look at Southwest like that one genius in your class who was always blowing the curve on tests because he'd get them all right?
No, because the airline executives realize that what matters is the paycheck they take home, not the company's balance sheet.
No, because the airline executives realize that what matters is the paycheck they take home, not the company's balance sheet.
slykens1
I don't work for the airlines but I might as well considering the amount of miles I have.
My parents live in Cedar Rapids, IA. Cedar Rapids has made a concerted effort to attract Southwest to the airport. Southwest won't come because in their words the airport isn't big enough and the volume wouldn't suppport their model. Fine answer and makes sense.
Except....Northwest, United, and American are all required to have a presence.
I don't work for the airlines but I might as well considering the amount of miles I have.
My parents live in Cedar Rapids, IA. Cedar Rapids has made a concerted effort to attract Southwest to the airport. Southwest won't come because in their words the airport isn't big enough and the volume wouldn't suppport their model. Fine answer and makes sense.
Except....Northwest, United, and American are all required to have a presence.
pendy575: Rapmaster2000
Simply look into the demise of Aloha air. Small airline serving the islands. Forced out of business the second the FAA stepped in and required them to carry a less profitable route to the mainland. A route required of larger airlines all along by the way.
Aloha Aloha airlines.
Same thing would happen to the vauted SW business geniuses if the same were to happen to them.
You got a link for that? I can't find anything with google. You're up on these things so you should be aware of the substantive info, right?
Simply look into the demise of Aloha air. Small airline serving the islands. Forced out of business the second the FAA stepped in and required them to carry a less profitable route to the mainland. A route required of larger airlines all along by the way.
Aloha Aloha airlines.
Same thing would happen to the vauted SW business geniuses if the same were to happen to them.
You got a link for that? I can't find anything with google. You're up on these things so you should be aware of the substantive info, right?
InmanRoshi:
You don't have to sit next to the 400 lbs. lady with the fat folds hanging over your armrests for 4 hours if you don't want to. I've noticed automated airline reservation systems seem to have this uncanny knack of sitting me next to Jabba the Hutt on any flight over 3 hours.
LOL. So true.
You don't have to sit next to the 400 lbs. lady with the fat folds hanging over your armrests for 4 hours if you don't want to. I've noticed automated airline reservation systems seem to have this uncanny knack of sitting me next to Jabba the Hutt on any flight over 3 hours.
LOL. So true.
Rapmaster2000
According to this interesting article from Wired (and from what I've read in biz school because Harvard Business Review loves SWA) Southwest has the highest paid workers.
Network carriers have railed for decades about the power of their employee unions. But guess who's the most unionized carrier in the nation? Southwest, of course. The airline says that 87 percent of its employees belong to a union. Southwest has never had a strike, and now that the network carriers have whacked away at salaries and benefits, Southwest staffers are generally the highest paid in the industry. But since Southwest has about 30 percent fewer employees per aircraft than its network competitors, it has the lowest non-fuel C.A.S.M. (cost per available seat mile) of any of the major carriers.
I agree, now that southwest has put such staffing and salary pressures on the major airlines most cut pilots salaries by half, and maintenance workers by as much as 40%. They also reduced staffing significantly. Two man crews turn over plane unstead of a typical 5 man crew, instead of the two gate agents working any major flight, your lucky to see one 20 minutes before the flight and they probably make around 13-14 dollars an hour.
Just to set the record straight I think southwest saw a market opportunity and had a great business plan, fewer employees for the same task at a lower wage=Profit everytime.
According to this interesting article from Wired (and from what I've read in biz school because Harvard Business Review loves SWA) Southwest has the highest paid workers.
Network carriers have railed for decades about the power of their employee unions. But guess who's the most unionized carrier in the nation? Southwest, of course. The airline says that 87 percent of its employees belong to a union. Southwest has never had a strike, and now that the network carriers have whacked away at salaries and benefits, Southwest staffers are generally the highest paid in the industry. But since Southwest has about 30 percent fewer employees per aircraft than its network competitors, it has the lowest non-fuel C.A.S.M. (cost per available seat mile) of any of the major carriers.
I agree, now that southwest has put such staffing and salary pressures on the major airlines most cut pilots salaries by half, and maintenance workers by as much as 40%. They also reduced staffing significantly. Two man crews turn over plane unstead of a typical 5 man crew, instead of the two gate agents working any major flight, your lucky to see one 20 minutes before the flight and they probably make around 13-14 dollars an hour.
Just to set the record straight I think southwest saw a market opportunity and had a great business plan, fewer employees for the same task at a lower wage=Profit everytime.
hillste: My question is why does everyone love Southwest and hate the Evil Wal-Mart?
Because SWA doesn't make a habit of coming into small towns and wrecking local small business.
SWA doesn't treat me like a shoplifter every time I visit.
SWA doesn't make me wait in a line 4 people deep to buy a $0.40 pack of gum.
SWA pays its employees fairly and with a decent benefits package (thanks to the union... I generally am not a fan of unions, but would love to see Wal-Mart workers unionize...)
Because SWA doesn't make a habit of coming into small towns and wrecking local small business.
SWA doesn't treat me like a shoplifter every time I visit.
SWA doesn't make me wait in a line 4 people deep to buy a $0.40 pack of gum.
SWA pays its employees fairly and with a decent benefits package (thanks to the union... I generally am not a fan of unions, but would love to see Wal-Mart workers unionize...)
Mr. Boomin'Granny
If they only flew to Atlanta from Bur or even LAX, then would they be the best airline.
This is the only reason I don't usually fly Southwest. They don't fly out of Greensboro, and they don't fly into O'Hare. We have to drive to Raleigh to catch a SW flight, and then it's an extra hour or two from Midway as opposed to O'Hare to get to my in-law's house. We usually end up on United just because they have a direct flight from GSO to ORD, and until recently, it was reasonably priced.
However, with the way that the other airlines keep sucking, I think we're going to end up flying Southwest every time after all...
If they only flew to Atlanta from Bur or even LAX, then would they be the best airline.
This is the only reason I don't usually fly Southwest. They don't fly out of Greensboro, and they don't fly into O'Hare. We have to drive to Raleigh to catch a SW flight, and then it's an extra hour or two from Midway as opposed to O'Hare to get to my in-law's house. We usually end up on United just because they have a direct flight from GSO to ORD, and until recently, it was reasonably priced.
However, with the way that the other airlines keep sucking, I think we're going to end up flying Southwest every time after all...
They said that they are in the oil business as much as the airline business. So i'm not surprised.
BobNesta420: Lumber Jack Off: I don't get why people always complain about southwest. everytime i've ever flown with them has been fantastic. which more than can be said about other airlines these days. so you're not assigned a seat. WHO GIVES A fark!
The luxury of the seat assignment means that you don't need to line up like cattle, hoping that you scored a low enough number to not be relegated to a middle seat.
What's the advantage to them to not assign seats? Does it somehow save money, or is it just a fun way for them to jerk around their passengers?
Southwest has been, in my experience, the only airline that is able to get the plane to the gate, offload 80% of the passengers, load on the next leg, and perform a full crew change in less than 30 minutes.
The new system they have in place (A1-30, A31-60, B1-30, etc) lets people line up at the right moment, and get on the plane as quickly as possible. The only system that seems as fast is what NWA does, calling assigned seating by ROWS (not arbitrary sections), and starting with the back of the plane.
The luxury of the seat assignment means that you don't need to line up like cattle, hoping that you scored a low enough number to not be relegated to a middle seat.
What's the advantage to them to not assign seats? Does it somehow save money, or is it just a fun way for them to jerk around their passengers?
Southwest has been, in my experience, the only airline that is able to get the plane to the gate, offload 80% of the passengers, load on the next leg, and perform a full crew change in less than 30 minutes.
The new system they have in place (A1-30, A31-60, B1-30, etc) lets people line up at the right moment, and get on the plane as quickly as possible. The only system that seems as fast is what NWA does, calling assigned seating by ROWS (not arbitrary sections), and starting with the back of the plane.
pendy575: slykens1
I don't work for the airlines but I might as well considering the amount of miles I have.
My parents live in Cedar Rapids, IA. Cedar Rapids has made a concerted effort to attract Southwest to the airport. Southwest won't come because in their words the airport isn't big enough and the volume wouldn't suppport their model. Fine answer and makes sense.
Except....Northwest, United, and American are all required to have a presence.
OK, I figured this out. He's talking about Essential Air Service. Here's his problem.
1. The routes are subsidized.
2. Cedar Rapids isn't one of those airports.
I don't work for the airlines but I might as well considering the amount of miles I have.
My parents live in Cedar Rapids, IA. Cedar Rapids has made a concerted effort to attract Southwest to the airport. Southwest won't come because in their words the airport isn't big enough and the volume wouldn't suppport their model. Fine answer and makes sense.
Except....Northwest, United, and American are all required to have a presence.
OK, I figured this out. He's talking about Essential Air Service. Here's his problem.
1. The routes are subsidized.
2. Cedar Rapids isn't one of those airports.
Flying Southwest from Lousivlle to Chicago next week for Lollapalooza. Factoring in gas, parking and stopping along the way it was actually much more economical to fly than it could have been to drive.
/Southwest FTW!
/Southwest FTW!
My favourite is when they overbook and realize at the gate that they have a problem. Then they get on the speaker and play "Oversold Bongo". The bidding starts at $200 to wait for the next flight. If I've got no pressing place to be, I'l let it get to $500 and then throw myself into the frey. If it goes cheaper, I get on the flight.
Sorry, thet referred to Air Canada...
pendy575: slykens1
I don't work for the airlines but I might as well considering the amount of miles I have.
My parents live in Cedar Rapids, IA. Cedar Rapids has made a concerted effort to attract Southwest to the airport. Southwest won't come because in their words the airport isn't big enough and the volume wouldn't suppport their model. Fine answer and makes sense.
Except....Northwest, United, and American are all required to have a presence.
Maybe that's why they're broke.
I don't work for the airlines but I might as well considering the amount of miles I have.
My parents live in Cedar Rapids, IA. Cedar Rapids has made a concerted effort to attract Southwest to the airport. Southwest won't come because in their words the airport isn't big enough and the volume wouldn't suppport their model. Fine answer and makes sense.
Except....Northwest, United, and American are all required to have a presence.
Maybe that's why they're broke.
nerfball: are you encouraging speculation in the energy markets? you should be arrested and thrown in jail for such actions.
That's either the worst troll or the most-ignorant thing written on Fark today. If you believe in politicians blaming speculators, you'll believe anything.
And if you don't believe in options/futures contracts, follow your own advice by cancelling all of your life, health, house, car and other insurance.
Oh, also don't vote in coming elections. Because you believe in politicians fairy tales.
That's either the worst troll or the most-ignorant thing written on Fark today. If you believe in politicians blaming speculators, you'll believe anything.
And if you don't believe in options/futures contracts, follow your own advice by cancelling all of your life, health, house, car and other insurance.
Oh, also don't vote in coming elections. Because you believe in politicians fairy tales.
pendy575: My parents live in Cedar Rapids, IA. Cedar Rapids has made a concerted effort to attract Southwest to the airport. Southwest won't come because in their words the airport isn't big enough and the volume wouldn't suppport their model. Fine answer and makes sense.
Except....Northwest, United, and American are all required to have a presence.
Wikipedia's page on the Eastern Iowa Airport (new window) is pretty interesting. I'm struggling to determine how NW, UA, and AA are required to provide service to this airport and *why* AA would just now introduce direct service to LGA if they're LOSING money there.
Can you provide some reference other than EAS (which is subsidized anyway) that NW, UA, and AA are required by law to serve CID?
Except....Northwest, United, and American are all required to have a presence.
Wikipedia's page on the Eastern Iowa Airport (new window) is pretty interesting. I'm struggling to determine how NW, UA, and AA are required to provide service to this airport and *why* AA would just now introduce direct service to LGA if they're LOSING money there.
Can you provide some reference other than EAS (which is subsidized anyway) that NW, UA, and AA are required by law to serve CID?
Southwest was the model for the best Canadian airline, Westjet. And now Westjet and Southwest have a sharing agreement. They share fleet, they share the same business mentality, and the same customer service driven experience. And now the same satisfied customers. What's not to like?
I can't wait till the other piggies go bust, then we can start do rationalize domestic North American flying.
/Westjet stock is a beaut
I can't wait till the other piggies go bust, then we can start do rationalize domestic North American flying.
/Westjet stock is a beaut
say what you want about southwest, but they became my favorite domestic airline this year. i still go to my flight expecting a delay, but most of their flight crews are the only ones i've seen in the industry right now that like to have fun. they joke around during the safety thing and are pretty light-hearted throughout the flight.
that makes a world of difference when you're crammed into the cattle-cars of coach. its a far cry from those condescending attitudes and elitist, paranoid behavior you get from the crews of other airlines that have this presumption that everything needs to be serious and over-professional to the point its not.
that makes a world of difference when you're crammed into the cattle-cars of coach. its a far cry from those condescending attitudes and elitist, paranoid behavior you get from the crews of other airlines that have this presumption that everything needs to be serious and over-professional to the point its not.
Defektiv: they joke around during the safety thing and are pretty light-hearted throughout the flight.
That hardly makes up for the fact that're you're surrounded by white trash and smelly people who can't speak English.
/It's like being at Wal-Mart.
That hardly makes up for the fact that're you're surrounded by white trash and smelly people who can't speak English.
/It's like being at Wal-Mart.
YoungSwedishBlonde: www.southwestsucks.com (p)
Now that's funny!
Now that's funny!
YoungSwedishBlonde: www.southwestsucks.com (p)
That link was a lot less entertaining than I'd hoped.
That link was a lot less entertaining than I'd hoped.
YoungSwedishBlonde: www.southwestsucks.com (p)
www.southwestexecsallhaveAIDScontractedfromunderageFilipinoboys.com
/aww, it doesn't work...
www.southwestexecsallhaveAIDScontractedfromunderageFilipinoboys.com
/aww, it doesn't work...
pendy575: Rapmaster2000
Simply look into the demise of Aloha air. Small airline serving the islands. Forced out of business the second the FAA stepped in and required them to carry a less profitable route to the mainland. A route required of larger airlines all along by the way.
Same thing would happen to the vauted SW business geniuses if the same were to happen to them.
SWA is PRECLUDED from flying MANY profitable routes. You've got it upside-down. They ALWAYS Profit Despite the UnFair conditions under which they are forced to operate.
Wiki GreatSouthwest Airport sometime.
Simply look into the demise of Aloha air. Small airline serving the islands. Forced out of business the second the FAA stepped in and required them to carry a less profitable route to the mainland. A route required of larger airlines all along by the way.
Same thing would happen to the vauted SW business geniuses if the same were to happen to them.
SWA is PRECLUDED from flying MANY profitable routes. You've got it upside-down. They ALWAYS Profit Despite the UnFair conditions under which they are forced to operate.
Wiki GreatSouthwest Airport sometime.
Omnivorous
nerfball: are you encouraging speculation in the energy markets? you should be arrested and thrown in jail for such actions.
That's either the worst troll or the most-ignorant thing written on Fark today.
Dude, come on. I didn't even respond with "0/10" to that post because it was such an obvious trolling... hell, not even trolling. Just sarcasm, really.
/meh, I give you credit for mentioning the possibility of it being a troll, though... ;)
nerfball: are you encouraging speculation in the energy markets? you should be arrested and thrown in jail for such actions.
That's either the worst troll or the most-ignorant thing written on Fark today.
Dude, come on. I didn't even respond with "0/10" to that post because it was such an obvious trolling... hell, not even trolling. Just sarcasm, really.
/meh, I give you credit for mentioning the possibility of it being a troll, though... ;)
The_Sponge: Defektiv: they joke around during the safety thing and are pretty light-hearted throughout the flight.
That hardly makes up for the fact that're you're surrounded by white trash and smelly people who can't speak English.
/It's like being at Wal-Mart.
Yeah! Poor people should stay where they came from! What's next- are they gonna start letting negros on planes?
/stfu dickhead
That hardly makes up for the fact that're you're surrounded by white trash and smelly people who can't speak English.
/It's like being at Wal-Mart.
Yeah! Poor people should stay where they came from! What's next- are they gonna start letting negros on planes?
/stfu dickhead
Per wiki: "Southwest turned its first annual profit in 1973, and has done so every year since - a record unmatched by any other commercial airline."
35 years straight of profit!
35 years straight of profit!
Like many of you, I refused to fly Southwest for several years after getting of sick and tired of being treated like cattle. However, I finally broke down and flew them last month and they've made improvements to their system, especially if you check in on-line. They have a good business model and they've proven that it works.
YoungSwedishBlonde
www.southwestsucks.com (p)
I have to give Southwest props for that. I mean, I used to work for a crooked as hell mobile home manufacturer that KNEW a very large number of people hated them, and they didn't even bother to buy their domain name with "sucks.com" at the end of it.
www.southwestsucks.com (p)
I have to give Southwest props for that. I mean, I used to work for a crooked as hell mobile home manufacturer that KNEW a very large number of people hated them, and they didn't even bother to buy their domain name with "sucks.com" at the end of it.
Rapmaster2000: Southwest is successful because they are the most unionized of all the airlines in the US.
Nope, it's because they actually understand how business works: do something a lot of people want for a price they can afford, and if something (i.e. a route) isn't profitable, don't use it.
And 'don't accept government aid/strings' is probably on a banner in their office somewhere. Low profile and minimal government interaction (within the obvious limits) are the way they roll.
Has nothing to do with the unions, save that they pay everyone well enough that no one complains, and word their contracts properly.
Nope, it's because they actually understand how business works: do something a lot of people want for a price they can afford, and if something (i.e. a route) isn't profitable, don't use it.
And 'don't accept government aid/strings' is probably on a banner in their office somewhere. Low profile and minimal government interaction (within the obvious limits) are the way they roll.
Has nothing to do with the unions, save that they pay everyone well enough that no one complains, and word their contracts properly.
I like Southwest. Sure the flights were crowded but it showed up on time, the people were nice, and I got to pick a window seat on both flights. The art is to know when to check in
/Online Check in FTW
//Window seats FTW!
/Online Check in FTW
//Window seats FTW!
I still don't know why everyone thinks SW is cheaper. Every single time I've looked at booking a flight, they're usually much more expensive than searching on Kayak. Not to mention SW doesn't fly into Minneapolis.
The_Sponge: They don't offer direct flights to L.A. from Seattle
Actually, they do offer direct flights. What they don't offer is nonstop flights, big difference.
Actually, they do offer direct flights. What they don't offer is nonstop flights, big difference.
They must have good management. They will be the one airline that survives.
Remember, when you lock in a price, you have to pay it regardless of the spot market price so its a great way to make money or lose money
Wrong!!!
They payed a premium up front to have the RIGHT to buy at a certain price. They could still buy at the lower price if they could get it, they just lose the premium. Its called a call option. You can let it expire worthless.
If prices had stayed low, they would have been paying slightly more than spot price due to buying the calls. However, that gives them stability, they no exactly what their cost will be.
Wrong!!!
They payed a premium up front to have the RIGHT to buy at a certain price. They could still buy at the lower price if they could get it, they just lose the premium. Its called a call option. You can let it expire worthless.
If prices had stayed low, they would have been paying slightly more than spot price due to buying the calls. However, that gives them stability, they no exactly what their cost will be.
Jim_Callahan: Rapmaster2000: Southwest is successful because they are the most unionized of all the airlines in the US.
Nope, it's because they actually understand how business works: do something a lot of people want for a price they can afford, and if something (i.e. a route) isn't profitable, don't use it.
And 'don't accept government aid/strings' is probably on a banner in their office somewhere. Low profile and minimal government interaction (within the obvious limits) are the way they roll.
Has nothing to do with the unions, save that they pay everyone well enough that no one complains, and word their contracts properly.
If I've learned anything on Fark it's that business success is entirely dependent on unions. GM and Ford suck because of teh unions. Since SWA is successful, it must be because of the unions. I am on Fark, I know stuff.
Nope, it's because they actually understand how business works: do something a lot of people want for a price they can afford, and if something (i.e. a route) isn't profitable, don't use it.
And 'don't accept government aid/strings' is probably on a banner in their office somewhere. Low profile and minimal government interaction (within the obvious limits) are the way they roll.
Has nothing to do with the unions, save that they pay everyone well enough that no one complains, and word their contracts properly.
If I've learned anything on Fark it's that business success is entirely dependent on unions. GM and Ford suck because of teh unions. Since SWA is successful, it must be because of the unions. I am on Fark, I know stuff.
GroverCleveland: Couple this with with 100lb asian triathlete girls in 2oz max clothing and you have one fuel-efficient operation!
Hot!
Hot!
Enjoy the good times while they're here.
Behold the future of air travel:
Behold the future of air travel:
The_Sponge: holeinmybucket: The only problem I have with Southwest is that the seats and carpet etc are all original equipment in a 30 year old plane... kind of feel like you are riding in Grandpa's 79 Town Car... It is much nicer in the money-losing Air Canada brand new Airbusses.
Boeing > Airbus
Only with certain airplanes, Pal.
A320 > 737 (Airbus is a much nice plane. Roomier than 737
777 > A330 (777 one of the best planes in the sky. It is roomier than the A330, but now by much)
Boeing > Airbus
Only with certain airplanes, Pal.
A320 > 737 (Airbus is a much nice plane. Roomier than 737
777 > A330 (777 one of the best planes in the sky. It is roomier than the A330, but now by much)
downstairs: They got lucky. They gambled that fuel prices would skyrocket, so they bought all of their fuel for the next decade 10 years ago (not sure on the timeframe here, but you get the point).
So they're paying $2/gallon while everyone else is paying $3/gallon. Easy to be profitable under these conditions.
They could have been unlucky. Its just a roll of the dice. No one knows which way fuel prices are going.
They also use the same model plane for everything. drastically reducing their maintenance parts costs and labor diversity and training.
Least what i heard.
So they're paying $2/gallon while everyone else is paying $3/gallon. Easy to be profitable under these conditions.
They could have been unlucky. Its just a roll of the dice. No one knows which way fuel prices are going.
They also use the same model plane for everything. drastically reducing their maintenance parts costs and labor diversity and training.
Least what i heard.
Does anyone know if SWA plans to partner with anyone to fly to Hawaii again? I have already built up another 2 free round trip tickets to Hawaii, but stupid ATA had to go bankrupt.
I also heard a rumor that they were going to fly/partner with another airline that flies to the Caribbean. Does anyone know if that is true?
/I love SWA
//free snacks
///no fees for bag checking
I also heard a rumor that they were going to fly/partner with another airline that flies to the Caribbean. Does anyone know if that is true?
/I love SWA
//free snacks
///no fees for bag checking
pendy575: Southwests competitive advantage is the FAA. You see, the FAA requires the United and Northwests of the world to maintain a presence in smaller markets and on less profitable routes. Southwest does not have to meet those same requirements for some reason (their size and a motive to increase competitiveness). What this does is create a situation where the major airlines are not allowed to offset losses in smaller less profitable markets (which the FAA requires) because Southwest comes in and undercuts price in the larger markets. It is a BS model that seems more competitive but ends up screwing us all.
Go ahead and keep on thinking that Southwest just does things better though...even if it isn't true. They may be smart for taking advantage of a loophole and making huge profits running substandard equipment on highly profitable routes and creating a cult of personality to keep labor costs low...but they don't do things better than the bigger airlines. They are simply the beneficiaries of government intrusion into the markets.
How about no?
The contract carriers of the "legacies" each operate a handful of Essential Air Service (EAS) routes that they opted to take on by bid. These are subsidized by the federal government to an extent. No one forced them to take the routes.
Go ahead and keep on thinking that Southwest just does things better though...even if it isn't true. They may be smart for taking advantage of a loophole and making huge profits running substandard equipment on highly profitable routes and creating a cult of personality to keep labor costs low...but they don't do things better than the bigger airlines. They are simply the beneficiaries of government intrusion into the markets.
How about no?
The contract carriers of the "legacies" each operate a handful of Essential Air Service (EAS) routes that they opted to take on by bid. These are subsidized by the federal government to an extent. No one forced them to take the routes.
Gargling Yambag: Like many of you, I refused to fly Southwest for several years after getting of sick and tired of being treated like cattle.
Yes!! For the three hours I'm on a plane I'd like to have my ass pampered!!!
For christsakes, when will these other airlines get a clue.
Public air travel is no longer a "luxury", lets all stop pretending like it is.
I want to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible.
I don't need a farking drink, snacks or farking pillow.
Get on the plane sit down and STFU.
JUST GET ME OFF THE 100 person TIN CAN AS SOON AS FARKING POSSIBLE.
The less time I have to spend smelling farts, armpits and listing to kids cry the better.
Yes!! For the three hours I'm on a plane I'd like to have my ass pampered!!!
For christsakes, when will these other airlines get a clue.
Public air travel is no longer a "luxury", lets all stop pretending like it is.
I want to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible.
I don't need a farking drink, snacks or farking pillow.
Get on the plane sit down and STFU.
JUST GET ME OFF THE 100 person TIN CAN AS SOON AS FARKING POSSIBLE.
The less time I have to spend smelling farts, armpits and listing to kids cry the better.
McBun: The_Sponge: Defektiv: they joke around during the safety thing and are pretty light-hearted throughout the flight.
That hardly makes up for the fact that're you're surrounded by white trash and smelly people who can't speak English.
/It's like being at Wal-Mart.
Yeah! Poor people should stay where they came from! What's next- are they gonna start letting negros on planes?
/stfu dickhead
Lighten up Francis. I was exaggerating. Oh, and that's a nice way to accusing somebody of racism.
I've had enough bad experiences with SWA to swear me off flying on them ever again. I could care less if poor people fly, but I hate it when some welfare mom can't get her farking brat to STFU.
That hardly makes up for the fact that're you're surrounded by white trash and smelly people who can't speak English.
/It's like being at Wal-Mart.
Yeah! Poor people should stay where they came from! What's next- are they gonna start letting negros on planes?
/stfu dickhead
Lighten up Francis. I was exaggerating. Oh, and that's a nice way to accusing somebody of racism.
I've had enough bad experiences with SWA to swear me off flying on them ever again. I could care less if poor people fly, but I hate it when some welfare mom can't get her farking brat to STFU.