I feel pretty ashamed we haven't done/are doing something about this. I guess it's not on the TV enough.

I rarely find a story on fark that interests me but am unable to finish. This was one of those few.

How dare we go into Iraq and Afganistan but ignore this.

God farking damnit. Every single person in the government should be forced to read this. Every farking useless lump in the UN should be forced to read this.

/farking shameful

Nahh, Saddam was obviously more important than this.

Just so everyone knows, China is heavily going after Sudanese oil. That's paying for the arms and munitions that are used against the people in Dafur. If anyone thinks we're going to crash China's party there, forget it.

For anybody that is able to spend the time, THIS is an excellent backgrounder on the situation in darfur. (^) Warning: If you watch it you will feel even worse.

They dont have any oil, why would we help them?

,yes thats sarcasm

If we go into a country to take out its government, we're being imperialistic bastards.
If we don't go into a country to take out its government (I'm sure all of the righteous in this thread know that the Sudanese president has been charged with genocide), we're being heartless bastards.

See, this is what makes me want to pull every troop we have back into the US, and tell the rest of the world to go screw itself. Either we ARE the world's policemen (and we get to defend our national and economic interests as part of the deal), or we aren't. Either way works for me.

Oh, and both the Iraq and Afghan war were stupid, both in premise and in execution. The last war we were in that made any damn sense was WWII.

In the nightmare of the dark
All the dogs of Europe bark,
And the living nations wait,
Each sequestered in its hate;

Intellectual disgrace
Stares from every human face,
And the seas of pity lie
Locked and frozen in each eye.
- W.H. Auden

dahmers love zombie: If we go into a country to take out its government, we're being imperialistic bastards.

A couple well placed assassinations would work too. No reason to invade.

I find it hard to believe that a just God would let this happen, I find it much easier to believe that if the Devil does exist he's pretty bored because humans do things to each other that even he hasn't dreamed up.

benlonghair: A couple well placed assassinations would work too. No reason to invade.

Or even just a few crates of AK-47's that just fell off the back of the truck, and a few expendable contractors to teach the Darfuri how to use them. (Maybe some missiles for the helicopters, too.) When the Janjaweed figure out that they will lose one soldier for every girl they rape, they'll stop.

/Hey, it worked before. There was just no follow-through.

really farking sad.

benlonghair: I rarely find a story on fark that interests me but am unable to finish. This was one of those few.

agreed. I couldn't stop reading.

NuttierThanEver: I find it hard to believe that a just God would let this happen, I find it much easier to believe that if the Devil does exist he's pretty bored because humans do things to each other that even he hasn't dreamed up.

right there with ya.

I'm nearly speechless. You hear the stories but this one in particular really captures it all, in all its disgusting detail. The level of pure inhumanity is baffling.

This is why we need to care for Africa. It's more than the pure violence and genocide. When generations of sub-Saharan Africans are decimated by violence, AIDs, and starvation, then the REAL bad guys will move in.

We allowed it to happen in Afghanistan. Let's not let it happen in Africa. We know the consequences.

steevmit: I feel pretty ashamed we haven't done/are doing something about this. I guess it's not on the TV enough.

They don't have enough oil for us to be interested.

For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems.

eddyatwork: For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems.

See my above post. It goes beyond morality. It would be in our long term self-interest.

eddyatwork: For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems.

...intervening everywhere else on earth where questionably we shouldn't be.

I've never seen a place so open-and-shut obviously in need of intervention, and I'm practically a post-WWI isolationist in my mindset. Iraq needs to stand on its own two feet and Afghanistan is pointless without more boots on the ground and safety off to pursue into neighboring countries.

Satan_Sunburn: God farking damnit. Every single person in the government should be forced to read this. Every farking useless lump in the UN should be forced to read this.

/farking shameful

they'd probably think it was pretty funny, then start working on ways to improve the brutality. I have no respect for the UN.

And while things like this happen in Africa, we worry about keeping those 'evil boy scouts' out of schools and making sure nobody prays during school hours. Amazing, isn't it?

Diogenes: eddyatwork: For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems.

See my above post. It goes beyond morality. It would be in our long term self-interest.

It's more self-interest to NOT do anything. Do we really want to get in a proxy war with China? They can start pushing us on LOTS more fronts, such as North Korea and Taiwan. They can step up antagonizing a newly re-armed Japan.

China is betting on the Arabs controlling Sudan and supplying them with oil. The nomadic Arab peoples don't like rural black people. As long as China backs the Arab population, they're going to expand into as much territory as they can. That's Darfur and now eastern Chad as well.

eddyatwork: For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems.

I tried to come up with an erudite and concise reply to your question so here it is.

You are an ass nugget.

NuttierThanEver: You are an ass nugget.

And you are very erudite. Retard.

steevmit: I feel pretty ashamed we haven't done/are doing something about this. I guess it's not on the TV enough.

Poor black people with no readily available exceedingly large natural resources or strategic locations for military force projection are of no concern to our country.

Diogenes: eddyatwork: For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems.

See my above post. It goes beyond morality. It would be in our long term self-interest.

Unfortunately, the same could be said of our intervention in Iraq. I'm not saying I agree with it....but the case could be made that Iraq was all about saving people from brutal oppression and that alone justifies our invasion.

palladiate: *sigh* You make a great point. And this is why our foreign policy is so farked up. Our interests are competing at best, contradictory at worst.

Weaver95: Unfortunately, the same could be said of our intervention in Iraq. I'm not saying I agree with it....but the case could be made that Iraq was all about saving people from brutal oppression and that alone justifies our invasion.

I don't agree. While there's little question about the political and social oppression in Iraq, it was far from being an imminent OR long term threat. It wasn't the petri dish for our future enemies that many African states are becoming.

Diogenes: It wasn't the petri dish for our future enemies that many African states are becoming.

It is now.

Diogenes: Weaver95: Unfortunately, the same could be said of our intervention in Iraq. I'm not saying I agree with it....but the case could be made that Iraq was all about saving people from brutal oppression and that alone justifies our invasion.

I don't agree. While there's little question about the political and social oppression in Iraq, it was far from being an imminent OR long term threat. It wasn't the petri dish for our future enemies that many African states are becoming.

I believe his point was that Saddam was brutally oppressing his subjects. I believe you missed it.

ExJerseyGirl: Diogenes: It wasn't the petri dish for our future enemies that many African states are becoming.

It is now.

Ain't that the sad truth.

Satan_Sunburn: Diogenes: Weaver95: Unfortunately, the same could be said of our intervention in Iraq. I'm not saying I agree with it....but the case could be made that Iraq was all about saving people from brutal oppression and that alone justifies our invasion.

I don't agree. While there's little question about the political and social oppression in Iraq, it was far from being an imminent OR long term threat. It wasn't the petri dish for our future enemies that many African states are becoming.

I believe his point was that Saddam was brutally oppressing his subjects. I believe you missed it.

Not at all. What I'm saying is that things like oppression and genocide are moral issues. Personally I think it's OK for us certain circumstances to act on moral causes. But Africa is more of a moral cause. It holds the potential to be a future threat. The morality of intervening is therefore moot.

Iraq didn't hold that potential. And our intent was not motivated by anything resembling morality.

SchlingFo: steevmit: I feel pretty ashamed we haven't done/are doing something about this. I guess it's not on the TV enough.

Poor black people with no readily available exceedingly large natural resources or strategic locations for military force projection are of no concern to our country.

George Bush doesn't care about black people.

This pisses me off. How the hell can the world just stand idly by and allow this to happen?

WTF? I can't imagine such horrors.

steevmit: I feel pretty ashamed we haven't done/are doing something about this. I guess it's not on the TV enough.

We have done quite a bit, including spending $1 billion in 07 on humanitarian aid there, installing sanctions, and trying to work with the UN to stop the genocide.

Unfortunately, it hasn't been enough and China's role doesn't make it easier to diffuse.

JackDAndCoke: George Bush doesn't care about black people.

Isn't this what you really meant?

Satan_Sunburn: JackDAndCoke: George Bush doesn't care about black people.

Isn't this what you really meant?

I don't know, he seems to really care about his Saudi friends.

Horrific.

MasterThief: Or even just a few crates of AK-47's that just fell off the back of the truck, and a few expendable contractors to teach the Darfuri how to use them.

I wonder how much Blackwater would charge for something like that.... No, really.

JackDAndCoke: George Bush doesn't care about black people.

Modern western nations don't care about poor, black people.

It's a fact.

lexnaturalis: This pisses me off. How the hell can the world just stand idly by and allow this to happen?

dude - desperate housewives is on!

lexnaturalis: This pisses me off. How the hell can the world just stand idly by and allow this to happen?

What are you doing about it?

ExJerseyGirl:
What are you doing about it?

What can any of us do about it? That's what sucks.

It's so disgusting, trashy good for nothing celebrities get paid millions upon millions of dollars and live lifestyles so lavish we can't even imagine while these people are truly in a living hell. There is no god.

BooBoo23: I wonder how much Blackwater would charge for something like that.... No, really.

I have contemplated the same thing.

We shall discuss this over dinner tonight.

Diogenes: palladiate: *sigh* You make a great point. And this is why our foreign policy is so farked up. Our interests are competing at best, contradictory at worst.

That why many times I believe we should say "fark it, let's follow our principles and let the world burn with us." I don't think we'd make the world much better, but at least we'd feel better knowing we did SOMETHING about it when it all falls apart like this anyway.

ExJerseyGirl: lexnaturalis: This pisses me off. How the hell can the world just stand idly by and allow this to happen?

What are you doing about it?

Yeah, good point man. A little grass-roots fund raising is just what we need to help the Sudanese. Maybe a bake sale.

/makes jerk-off motion.

ExJerseyGirl: lexnaturalis: This pisses me off. How the hell can the world just stand idly by and allow this to happen?

What are you doing about it?

What exactly do you propose I do about it? Raise money and hire my own private army to go over there?

swingerhead: They dont have any oil, why would we help them?

Sad but true. The world doesn't do anything about the tribal animalistic violence in such places because the world doesn't care about the people in lawless countries tearing themselves apart unless it affects the world at large (read: they have oil or some other material we want to secure access to).

If Saddam wasn't sitting on so much oil, he would have been in power there for about as long as Castro.

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: A little grass-roots fund raising is just what we need to help the Sudanese. Maybe a bake sale.

I think the grass roots movement that is underway is having the biggest impact on creating awareness and pushing to get anything done over there.

Here is a place to start. Link (new window)

lexnaturalis: What exactly do you propose I do about it? Raise money and hire my own private army to go over there?

Well, hopefully, if you're losing this much sleep over it at night, you're organizing a grass-roots campaign to lobby the representatives in D.C. or the U.N. to take action.

Of course, if you're like me, and this is the furthest thing from your mind when you lay your head down to go to sleep at night, you probably aren't doing jack shiat besides saying that it's "farked up" here on Fark.

lexnaturalis:

What exactly do you propose I do about it? Raise money and hire my own private army to go over there?

You can raise money and help fund the groups that are helping the 2.5 million displaced people. You can start/join an activist group. (See link in my previous post)

"The idea used to be that terrible countries were terrible because good, decent, innocent people were being oppressed by evil, thuggish leaders. Somalia changed that. Here you have a country where just about everybody is caught up in hatred and fighting. You stop and old lady on the street and ask er if she wants peace, and she'll say, yes, of course, I pray for it daily...Then ask her if she would be willing for her clan to share power with another in order to have that peace, and she'll say, 'With those murderers and thieves? I'd die first.'

"People in these countries - Bosnia is a more recent example - don't want peace. They want victory. They want power. Men, women, old and young. Somalia was the experience that taught us that people in these places bear much of the responsibility for things being the way they are. The hatred and the killing continues because they want it to. Or because they don't want peace enough to stop it."

-Mark Bowden
Black Hawk Down, 2000

rikdanger: "The idea used to be that terrible countries were terrible because good, decent, innocent people were being oppressed by evil, thuggish leaders. Somalia changed that. Here you have a country where just about everybody is caught up in hatred and fighting. You stop and old lady on the street and ask er if she wants peace, and she'll say, yes, of course, I pray for it daily...Then ask her if she would be willing for her clan to share power with another in order to have that peace, and she'll say, 'With those murderers and thieves? I'd die first.'

"People in these countries - Bosnia is a more recent example - don't want peace. They want victory. They want power. Men, women, old and young. Somalia was the experience that taught us that people in these places bear much of the responsibility for things being the way they are. The hatred and the killing continues because they want it to. Or because they don't want peace enough to stop it."

-Mark Bowden
Black Hawk Down, 2000

That is an awesome book, and Bowden's analysis is spot-on. Hell, just the other day the NYT mentioned how Karadzic is still seen as a nationalist hero by Serbs- "His reputation at home, as a nationalist hero, is very different from his image abroad."

Shockingly the Jesus folks still want to kill the brown man in Iraq instead of helping these poor people.

What about the genocide, and raping/mutilation of women in Darfur? Let me see ...... is there oil there? No? fark them then.

/Jesus must be a real farking dickhead

Weaver95: Satan_Sunburn: God farking damnit. Every single person in the government should be forced to read this. Every farking useless lump in the UN should be forced to read this.

/farking shameful

they'd probably think it was pretty funny, then start working on ways to improve the brutality. I have no respect for the UN.

And while things like this happen in Africa, we worry about keeping those 'evil boy scouts' out of schools and making sure nobody prays during school hours. Amazing, isn't it?

Congratulations - you win the non-sequitur farktard idiot award of the year. Please don't reproduce.

If the Sudanese wanted America's help they would have had the god damn common courtesy to find some major oil reserves.

It's so sad that the U.N. is completely useless.

*glances over shoulder*

*fap*

I don't understand how this country can allow this crap to continue. It's been going on in different places for decades, and all I ever see anyone do about it is talk.

bacccc: Shockingly the Jesus folks still want to kill the brown man in Iraq instead of helping these poor people.

WTF are you talking about?

:::::Insert Obligatory Farkism:::::

::::Insert done, carry on:::::

You mean people are upset we DIDN'T intervene in an oil-rich country full of brown people with a genocidal government?

If we were in there, you would be complaining because Bush invaded.

God. I felt terrible after reading that.

Then I wished I hadn't read it, and felt even worse for thinking that.

I'll always read it. It's better to feel awful for knowing.

/reminds me of Shake Hands With The Devil (new window), the best book ever written about Rwanda.

But, seriously, like someone mentioned above, the US will not get into a proxy war with China. There will never be any major US involvement. The Sudan would have it's issues even without China's involvement as well. It truly is a 3rd world shiathole that makes Iraq look like the jewel of the world.

So I'm guessing every person on this thread that is so full of their righteous indignation at the inaction of the government and blaming Bush is headed off to the Sudan? No?

Shocking.

Isn't it time for the G8 to step up, tell the U.N. to fark off, and truly apply our brand of democracy on the world?

Sudan is where we should be. Not Iraq. We must stop the Darfur JIHAD.

I couldn't even make it half way through the article. It is un-farking-believable that we waste our time fearmongering over the Saddams and Mahmouds of the world when this kind of a thing is going on (and has been). Any country supporting them is just shameful.

Can anyone tell me why we even have the UN around anymore? They seem mostly evil and in bed with corporations. Just so I understand for now on.

eddyatwork: For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems.

Because we are THE Superpower. The most powerful country in the world. We cannot sit on our hands while these horrors are being perpetrated.

I have given up reading sad stories posted on fark

Lt. Cheese Weasel: So I'm guessing every person on this thread that is so full of their righteous indignation at the inaction of the government and blaming Bush is headed off to the Sudan? No?

Shocking.

And I guess you're posting from Afghanistan or Iraq? No? Shocking.

Bill Gates and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg announced on Wednesday that they would spend $500 million to stop people around the world from smoking. DUHHH smokes don't have software

^This money should be used for this cause =\

Really? This long?

This is yet another reason why the entire continent of Africa should be nuked back into the oceans...

eddyatwork: For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems. Ron Paul!!!

FTFY!

benlonghair: How dare we go into Iraq and Afganistan but ignore this.

And what would we gain?

Fact is, governments are more like businesses than most people realize. Shocking moral atrocities are, indeed, shocking, but why should the President risk American lives and spend American dollars for something that will not, in any way, benefit America? Until you can give him a good financial or political reason, he won't do it.

this just goes to show that the human race will never truly be 'enlightened'... as long as people still treat other people like dirt, there is no hope.

Thunderpipes: If we were in there, you would be complaining because Bush invaded.

Believe it or not, people are motivated by things other than their spite of Bush. I know it sounds crazy, but it's true.

somebody needs to something about Mugabe before he does any more damage.

bacccc: Shockingly the Jesus folks still want to kill the brown man in Iraq instead of helping these poor people.

What about the genocide, and raping/mutilation of women in Darfur? Let me see ...... is there oil there? No? fark them then.

/Jesus must be a real farking dickhead

well, maybe Jesus, but maybe it's just you. Sudan -does- have oil. Lots of it. They are the #3 producer in Africa.

Hitchens noted in a recent column, "China buys most of the oil of Sudan and in return provides the weaponry-and the diplomatic cover at the United Nations-for the cleansing of Darfur. ("Blood for oil" would be a good description of this bargain, though I have not seen the expression employed very often.)"

I am waiting for the explosion of denunciation towards China for its blood-for-oil policy. I have a feeling I'll be waiting a while. Make yourself feel better-- just say it is all America's fault.

I sent a letter to several investment companies requesting they divest from Darfur. Take a look at the soulless answer I got back from one of them:

Thank you for your recent email to Invesco.

Like you, we abhor the violence in Sudan and the suffering that the people of Darfur are experiencing. We are hopeful the ongoing diplomatic efforts by governments and non-governmental organizations will soon bring peace to the region.

The vast majority of funds we manage for investors contain investments that have no direct or indirect connection to Sudan.

Utilizing the services of a company that specializes in this type of screening, we do provide a service to institutional clients to insure their accounts do not contain stocks of any company that has direct or indirect business ties to Sudan.

The few funds we manage that do contain these investments are obligated to follow the terms of their prospectuses as we have a fiduciary duty to manage assets in the best interests of fund shareholders and in compliance with the terms of their fund prospectuses.


I responded, in part:

That's a very morally bankrupt answer. Imagine the difference that would have been made in World War II if the companies that invested in the German war industry had put human suffering before "the best interests of fund shareholders." Are the lives of the Sudanese victims less valuable than the portfolios of your investors? You should be ashamed to put to print a response so devoid of human concern.

Until we start twisting the arms of the ones funding this corrupt government, people will continue to die.

There is oil in Sudan. We're not getting involved because the Sudanese army is being propped up by the Chinese. I think we all remember what happened the last time.

eddyatwork: For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems.

I'm not advocating anything, but if I were drafted to go to war there to end this, I would have no problem with that.

blazemongr: benlonghair: How dare we go into Iraq and Afganistan but ignore this.

And what would we gain?

Fact is, governments are more like businesses than most people realize. Shocking moral atrocities are, indeed, shocking, but why should the President risk American lives and spend American dollars for something that will not, in any way, benefit America? Until you can give him a good financial or political reason, he won't do it.

Can you tell me what we've gained from Iraq and Afghanistan so far? Other than increasing national debt, that is.

ladyfortuna: this just goes to show that the human race will never truly be 'enlightened'... as long as people still treat other people like dirt, there is no hope.

Unfortunately, if the power structure was reversed in the Sudan, the exact same thing would be going on. The same with Bosnia, Somalia, Iraq, and all areas full of ethnic strife. It's not about peace. It's about victory.

THE SUDAN HAS OIL. PLEASE SHUT THE FARK UP WITH THAT TIRED-ASS "WELL, THEY DON'T HAVE OIL" LINE.penis.

But when the parents rushed to the school they found a cordon of government soldiers had surrounded it and were letting nobody in. If anyone came too close, the soldiers shot at them with their guns. Parents could hear their daughters screaming, but there was no way they could help.


Holy christ.

godiluvbeer: benlonghair: I rarely find a story on fark that interests me but am unable to finish. This was one of those few.

agreed. I couldn't stop reading.

FAIL

FYI:

http://www.ushmm.org/conscience/alert/darfur/contents/01-overview/

I'm not even going to click that link. I'm sure it's unimaginably awful.

shiat like this is why I pretty much hate all of humanity.

Farking Muslims again! What more can you expect from savage beasts like this?

Evil incarnate

mama's_tasty_foods: "Hitchens noted in a recent column, "China buys most of the oil of Sudan and in return provides the weaponry-and the diplomatic cover at the United Nations-for the cleansing of Darfur. ("Blood for oil" would be a good description of this bargain, though I have not seen the expression employed very often.)"

I am waiting for the explosion of denunciation towards China for its blood-for-oil policy. I have a feeling I'll be waiting a while. Make yourself feel better-- just say it is all America's fault."

Excellent post!

Hannahman:
Unfortunately, if the power structure was reversed in the Sudan, the exact same thing would be going on. The same with Bosnia, Somalia, Iraq, and all areas full of ethnic strife. It's not about peace. It's about victory.

Hence why I was condemning the HUMAN race.

SchlingFo: JackDAndCoke: George Bush doesn't care about black people.

Modern western nations don't care about poor, black people.

It's a fact.

dumb.

dahmers love zombie: Either we ARE the world's policemen (and we get to defend our national and economic interests as part of the deal), or we aren't.

Oh, but you see, even police men have rules they must follow. If not, they are worse than the lawbreakers.

GaryPDX: Just so everyone knows, China is heavily going after Sudanese oil. That's paying for the arms and munitions that are used against the people in Dafur. If anyone thinks we're going to crash China's party there, forget it.

Just so you know, they only export 279,100bpd. A small bit of diplomacy could go along way with the Chinese on this issue as they only get a small amount of oil from Sudan.

lexnaturalis: This pisses me off. How the hell can the world just stand idly by and allow this to happen?

Because they always do. Unless someone makes a compelling case that it's their problem, most people will just look away.

It's happened many times before, and will happen many times again.

/sad
//true

saddam's people did a lot of the same sh*t in iraq. go to hell bitc*y libs

scavenger: But when the parents rushed to the school they found a cordon of government soldiers had surrounded it and were letting nobody in. If anyone came too close, the soldiers shot at them with their guns. Parents could hear their daughters screaming, but there was no way they could help.

Holy christ.

/as opposed to what "shooting at them with rubber bands"?

We've got the Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan oil pipeline. China's got Sudan. One doesn't step on the other. It sucks, and it's wrong, but that's the way it goes.

Bobolina: Can anyone tell me why we even have the UN around anymore? They seem mostly evil and in bed with corporations.

No, they're just unproductive because they have to respect the sovereignty of individual member nations and because any member of the Security Council has a complete veto.

Orson Scott Card, in "Shadow of the Giant", speculated that the only way a world government could work is by having the central government provide all the military protection across national borders, and the individual nations have none. They retained sovereign power within their borders but couldn't send fighting forces across them.

Since the UN has no independent military ability, it's basically a clubhouse and its sanctions carry little weight. IIRC, the original US Articles of Confederation had many of the same problems that the UN has today, which is why they were thrown out and replaced with the strong central government the Constitution provides today.

FLMountainMan: THE SUDAN HAS OIL. PLEASE SHUT THE FARK UP WITH THAT TIRED-ASS "WELL, THEY DON'T HAVE OIL" LINE

a proven reserve of half of what we are ignoring in ANWR, a tiny fraction of the oil in Iraq.

Wow. I knew it was bad, but it takes hearing it from someone who's lived through it to really appreciate the atrocities.

Headso: FLMountainMan: THE SUDAN HAS OIL. PLEASE SHUT THE FARK UP WITH THAT TIRED-ASS "WELL, THEY DON'T HAVE OIL" LINE

a proven reserve of half of what we are ignoring in ANWR, a tiny fraction of the oil in Iraq.

When are we taking that oil, by the by? $4 gas is killing me.

Xerxes99: scavenger: But when the parents rushed to the school they found a cordon of government soldiers had surrounded it and were letting nobody in. If anyone came too close, the soldiers shot at them with their guns. Parents could hear their daughters screaming, but there was no way they could help.

Holy christ.

/as opposed to what "shooting at them with rubber bands"?

Way to miss the point.

I hate saying this because what happened to those people in that article is unspeakable, but the best thing that can happen for them is a group of US citizens gather money to relocate those people. They are conquored in their homeland. They have already lost, giving guns and military support will not help. If they want to stay and die, then that is their right.

I honestly don't care. Someone look at my Iphone.

Awful.

Send the story to people you know and maybe the world can make something happen.

Awful.

The lifecycle of a international humanity thread:

PRO: "It's criminal that the US doesn't fix this NOW".

CON: "Why is it up to the US to fix every country that hates us, etc".

PRO: "FARK YOU CON!"

CON: "FARK YOU COMMIE"

Drew Profits.

Kind of "SPY vs SPY" until you realize these are real people.

Degree Absolute: eddyatwork: For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems.

Because we are THE Superpower. The most powerful country in the world. We cannot sit on our hands while these horrors are being perpetrated.

No this is not our problem. Anytime we go bail someone out they hate us more. I say the hell with them, if they want the problem fixed THEY will fix it. You can't help people who won't help themselves.

I have to believe that if we wanted to cleaning up these nomadic raiders in Sudan would be a lot easier than what we're attempting in Iraq. These raiders are pseudo-military with bases and such that can be actually attacked, rather than the urban subversives we're fighting mixed with civilians in Iraq. And certainly these sort of open raids are preventable with any serious will to do so.

ladyfortuna: this just goes to show that the human race will never truly be 'enlightened'... as long as people still treat other people like dirt, there is no hope.

If no human ever treated another like dirt, we wouldn't need hope.

Bobolina: Can you tell me what we've gained from Iraq and Afghanistan so far? Other than increasing national debt, that is.

The original idea was that we'd set up a stable democracy in a non-Jewish Arab nation, they'd be friendly to us, oil would become widely available to the west, and America would have a stepping stone to convert the rest of the Muslim nations into sectarian governments like ours.

Obviously, somebody forgot to fill in "Step 2: ???"

This is a shiatty situation that I have spent a lot of time raising awareness for.

Even after studying the conflict for quite some time, I am still not sure how anyone could stop it. At least not without becoming beasts themselves.

I guess we could have guards in camps. (like The UN does) This is, however, fairly uneffective. Or else we have to go and actually engage them in combat. If/When we do that, they will be butchered like lambs at the slaughter, and who looks like the bad guy then? More importantly, do we actually BECOME the bad guy then?

/Honestly doesn't know
//Wish I did.

All I can say about this is.....fu**ing A.

Degree Absolute: eddyatwork: For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems.

Because we are THE Superpower. The most powerful country in the world. We cannot sit on our hands while these horrors are being perpetrated.

Welcome to the Republican Party my friend, have some coolaid.

There is no diplomatic solution to this, only a fool would believe there was. The Junta is backed by Chinese $cratch, "saving" the locals would cost us serrious world prestige and not to mention a f'nuck load of cash. We have nothing to gain from this (yours and my soul aint worth shiite), we would only lose alot for the gain of a few more years for the locals until we lost the home political war and went home so the Junta could go back to thier daily rape/pillage exercize.

These people are screwed, and eventually they will leave or be wiped/farked out of existance. It wont be pretty and in the west we only see the tip of the iceberg of these stories. Turn off the T.V or simply biatch and moan about nothing being done, your only other option is to fly over there and get killed personally trying to make a difference.

/As I always try to remember, the world wouldnt piss on you if you were on fire.

wolvernova: eddyatwork: For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems.

I'm not advocating anything, but if I were drafted to go to war there to end this, I would have no problem with that.

Same here. Abraham Lincoln Brigade anyone?

FLMountainMan: THE SUDAN HAS OIL. PLEASE SHUT THE FARK UP WITH THAT TIRED-ASS "WELL, THEY DON'T HAVE OIL" LINE.penis.

This. Plenty of oil. Lots of Chinese holdings.

Horrible

Hopeless

Shameful

Fact Man: When are we taking that oil, by the by? $4 gas is killing me.

Iraq is currently our 7th largest foreign supplier of oil, get a new talking point...

I like how this is somehow America's problem. "Why aren't we doing anything?!?! Waaah!" What about all the other countries in the world- European nations, Russia, China, South American countries, the UN. Why does America have to do all this. We're tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan for better or worse. Deal with it.

Headso: Fact Man: When are we taking that oil, by the by? $4 gas is killing me.

Iraq is currently our 7th largest foreign supplier of oil, get a new talking point...

I didn't make a talking point. I asked a question and made a declarative statement afterward. No imperatives there.

I wonder is there a grassroots effort to buy these people AK's to defend themselves, Because sending them food and clothes doesn't really address the problem does it.

Genocide has never been committed on an armed population, these people need weapons and training and they need it yesterday

Too bad charity organizations don't believe in violence.

rikdanger
"The idea used to be that terrible countries were terrible because good, decent, innocent people were being oppressed by evil, thuggish leaders. Somalia changed that. Here you have a country where just about everybody is caught up in hatred and fighting. You stop and old lady on the street and ask er if she wants peace, and she'll say, yes, of course, I pray for it daily...Then ask her if she would be willing for her clan to share power with another in order to have that peace, and she'll say, 'With those murderers and thieves? I'd die first.'

"People in these countries - Bosnia is a more recent example - don't want peace. They want victory. They want power. Men, women, old and young. Somalia was the experience that taught us that people in these places bear much of the responsibility for things being the way they are. The hatred and the killing continues because they want it to. Or because they don't want peace enough to stop it."

-Mark Bowden
Black Hawk Down, 2000

You can see that same problem here, in this article. The author, in between relating the atrocities committed against her, devotes no small space to the same sort of insular tribal mindset that is fueling this whole thing.

When you have two groups of people who have no concept of a larger common humanity outside their own tribe, who all hate each other, and who want to kill each other there is nothing anybody can do to bring peace. Nothing you or I or the UN or the US army can do to bring peace, because NONE of them want it. What Bowden said is absolutely right, they may want peace but only if it means every single member of the opposing tribe is a corpse first.

There are no good guys here. The victims are only victims because they are not currently the ones with the power to make the other side victims.

eddyatwork: For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems.

Aren't crimes against humanity/war crimes/Geneova convention reason enough to get involved?

The problem with the Sudan is that it's China giving them weapons in return for access to the oil there. And it's no the only place in Africa seeing Chinese weapons. Sooner or later someone is going to need to do something about that.

VRaptor117: I like how this is somehow America's problem. "Why aren't we doing anything?!?! Waaah!" What about all the other countries in the world- European nations, Russia, China, South American countries, the UN. Why does America have to do all this. We're tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan for better or worse. Deal with it.

I'm sure if we did go in there the same people would be complaining about it saying we're not the world police.

Not to sound like an ass. That was terrible to read about.

But black people in the US really need to stop complaining about racism and complaining about how rough they have it here...

ExJerseyGirl: What are you doing about it?

Talking about it, getting the word out there so hopefully someone who is better situated to DO something, does. I had no idea things were that bad out there and now i know, and i'll spread that knowledge, and someday some idiot is going to ask me what, 'i'm doing about it', and i'll start this sentence again.

Hannahman: If the Sudanese wanted America's help they would have had the god damn common courtesy to find some major oil reserves.

Are you really that uninformed or was that sarcasm?

lexnaturalis: ExJerseyGirl: lexnaturalis: This pisses me off. How the hell can the world just stand idly by and allow this to happen?

What are you doing about it?

What exactly do you propose I do about it? Raise money and hire my own private army to go over there?

We had a fundraiser for Darfur at my workplace a few months ago. We collected money and clothing for a charity that is involved there.

Also, there is something you can do: write to your state senator or congress-person. If they see that these issues are important to enough of their voting constituents, they will bring up the issue.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -Margaret Mead

For the last farking time: SUDAN HAS OIL! Jesus farking Christ, that's part of the problem! The Sudanese government has bought the farking Chinese over to their farking side with their farking oil!

Since the Chinese are 1) a budding superpower, 2) incredibly economically important as a market and a supplier, and 3) have a Security Council veto, that means Sudan has free reign.

Don't worry. No souls here on fark. That would require believing in God.

What a terrible ordeal for this doctor, and all the people in Darfur, especially the least able to defend themselves, women and children. Do these monsters not have children/wives of their own? It's a holocaust and it's happening right now, while the world sits on it's hands.

I'm so ashamed of the human race right now.

Rurouni: Not to sound like an ass. That was terrible to read about.

But black people in the US really need to stop complaining about racism and complaining about how rough they have it here...

I agree. I'm sure these victims would praise the skies if their worst problem was being called a nappy-headed ho by an old radio talk show host.

And to all the people who think this is "new"...there have been ethnic cleansings and genocide in the various African nations for decades...maybe even centuries...

WhyteRaven74: The problem with the Sudan is that it's China giving them weapons in return for access to the oil there. And it's no the only place in Africa seeing Chinese weapons. Sooner or later someone is going to need to do something about that.

Pfft, everyone knows that if you want to commit African genocide you should buy American.

This may sound shallow, or mysoginistic...

but when I was reading it I thought it was a dude, I opened and closed it a few times (in the office) and didn't catch it was a she until they father talked about her marrying a boy, and I really hate to say it, but that made it a little better..

anyone else get that?

benlonghair: How dare we go into Iraq and Afganistan but ignore this.

How come the rest of the world isn't stepping up?

I think part of the reason our government has lost much of the respect and credibility we had is partly because we let this kind of stuff go on. It's just too damn sad.

These people in Darfur are so stupid. If they don't like famine and war then they should just move. They should just fill up their SUVs and drive across the border. Duh. Foreigners are so stupid.

glassa: Farking Muslims again! What more can you expect from savage beasts like this?

This has nothing to do with Moslems, and everything to do with somoene providing weapons and money to wipe someone out.

Cato: because NONE of them want it.

I've met people from Sudan, they have a slightly different view.

eddyatwork: For all of you advocating we intervene, why is this our concern? The US has its own problems.

It is our concern as a moral nation. Do we have our own concerns? Sure. Do we also have the power to stop what's happening to these people? Yes.

Keep that in mind if you ever get mugged and someone nearby can intervene but chooses not to.

TheGreenMonkey: I think part of the reason our government has lost much of the respect and credibility we had is partly because we let this kind of stuff go on. It's just too damn sad.

I don't know about that. Plenty of atrocities went on in Iraq before our intervention, too, but people don't care that that governing body was toppled.