A thriller brought to you by Scotland Yard's Deputy Assistant Commissioner Alfred Hitchcock

Much like the US, Britain seems determined to continue do follow policy that by every standard has been a dismal failure. In this case it has been civilian disarmament.

Crosshair: Much like the US, Britain seems determined to continue do follow policy that by every standard has been a dismal failure. In this case it has been civilian disarmament.

Less so the "disarmament" as subscribing to the folly of thinking that simplistic addressing of the symptoms of a problem, will do much good.

Violent crime isn't just a matter of tools and opportunity. If that were the case, the Swiss would be wracked with horrible violence, owing to the armed state of the populace. Same for the folks in Canuckistan who are pretty well armed, despite what folks who like to point fingers across our wide borders often like to admit.

Simply having or not having weapons doesn't solve the underlying causes of violence. It only changes the nature and style of the violence. If you don't address those issues, you don't see a change in the number of incidents as much as you change the style in which those crimes are committed. Which does change the statistics, and often in ways that allow folks to fudge a bit for their own purposes.

Weapons alone, their being in the hands of a populace or not, aren't the determining factor--they are often a symptom, but not the cause of violence or peaceable conduct. You have to factor in economic and social stability. How safe do citizens feel? How stressed is the populace? Are there safeties in place to catch citizens? Is there a culture that rewards violence? Is the populace encouraged by the State to act on its own? Ignored by the State in such a way that they feel they have to take matters into their own hands?

You can't encourage a populace to act in a certain fashion, and then dare to be surprised when it occurs. Be that the UK or the US. You remove a social safety net, and threaten the populace with economic and social instability, you can't be surprised when they begin to act in ways to protect themselves, or take matters into their own hands. You can certainly address the symptoms by cracking down, but until you remove the factors that lead to the violence, all you are going to do is change the style in which it is committed, or you can try to focus the debate on the criminals, as opposed to actually fixing the problem--which is in part how the UK has handled themselves, and the US treats its violent crimes.

So long as you address symptoms, you aren't going to fix a damn thing. Just throw a band aid over a big gaping wound, and hoping it heals on its own isn't a real smart way to treat the thing, but that's pretty much how the US and the UK seem to be dealing with things.

Very good post hubiestubert.

hubiestubert: You are making sense and speaking truth, We'll have none of that here, be off with you...

AMS0000: hubiestubert: You are making sense and speaking truth, We'll have none of that here, be off with you...

Sorry about that. I'll go back to polishing my guns and muttering phrases about illegal immigrants...

a few years ago my firm sent out an email to employees clarifying their "no weapons" policy, which included no knives of any type. a senior partner replied-to-all within 30 minutes saying that as written, the policy was complete bullshiat. he challenged them to take the knife he uses as a letter opener and accused the firm of blatantly violating its own rules by providing cutlery for general use in the kitchens

his email was a thing of beauty - i wish i had saved it. i've never seen the firm backpedal faster on anything

/got a pocket knife engraved with my initials from another partner last christmas

This theory would seem to be backed up by media reports, which have included photos taken from social networking sites showing young people proudly wielding knives and even machetes.

I can't wait until the Nanny State takes knives away from everybody and teenagers are forced to look tough while posing with sticks in their Facebook pictures.

Walker: This theory would seem to be backed up by media reports, which have included photos taken from social networking sites showing young people proudly wielding knives and even machetes.

I can't wait until the Nanny State takes knives away from everybody and teenagers are forced to look tough while posing with sticks in their Facebook pictures.

Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to pose in Facebook with pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're perusing Facebook tonight and some great homicidal maniac posts a pic with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me!

hubiestubert: So long as you address symptoms, you aren't going to fix a damn thing. Just throw a band aid over a big gaping wound, and hoping it heals on its own isn't a real smart way to treat the thing, but that's pretty much how the US and the UK seem to be dealing with things.

In other words: "Throughout history, people have been, are, and will be farked up creatures and there ain't a damn thing the eggheads can do about it."

I wonder how long before the gov't of Britain bans hands?

It's a good thing that we here in America have the second amendment.

Wait, nevermind. The NRA has re-written that to only apply to guns.

Next thing you know there will be an arms race on British streets...Knives, machetes, chainsaws...Where will it end???


That's not a knife...

So, which asshole thought it was a good idea in the first place to cede an individual's right to self-defense to the government?

hubiestubert: AMS0000: hubiestubert: You are making sense and speaking truth, We'll have none of that here, be off with you...

Sorry about that. I'll go back to polishing my guns and muttering phrases about illegal immigrants...

Now you're speaking my language.

/I kid

LocalCynic: Wait, nevermind. The NRA has re-written that to only apply to guns.

Nobody's stopping you from forming the National Knife Association, are they?

Don't do what Donnie Don't does.

What's next? Pointy sticks? Fresh fruit?

Man On Pink Corner: LocalCynic: Wait, nevermind. The NRA has re-written that to only apply to guns.

Nobody's stopping you from forming the National Knife Association, are they?

ehhh... a few collectors might take issue with it, but other than that, you're right

Man On Pink Corner: LocalCynic: Wait, nevermind. The NRA has re-written that to only apply to guns.

Nobody's stopping you from forming the National Knife Association, are they?

Is there even knife control in the U.S.? I thought I could go online, pick out a two-handed sword, and whip out my credit card, without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

When it comes to violent people, disarming law-abiding citizens only intensifies problems. Silly Nanny state...

Snarfangel
Is there even knife control in the U.S.? I thought I could go online, pick out a two-handed sword, and whip out my credit card, without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

In MA, many bladed weapons are banned. You can't have knives over a certain length and traditional martial arts weapons, such as swords and nunchucks, are banned. I don't know about plain staffs but I wouldn't be surprised. So don't remove that broom from its handle if you know what's best for you.

"On Friday police confirmed the death of an 18-year-old in south London, the 21st teenager to die of violence in the British capital this year, amid wider concerns about anti-social behaviour among young people on the streets"

Wimps. Hang in downtown Detroit for a few days.

Alf Hitchcock, Gloria Laycock

This has to be satire

Gloria: "Daddy, I can't believe you have a gun. Did you know there were 10,000 deaths from guns last year?"

Archie: "Would it make you feel better if they was pushed outta windows?"

/paraphrasing

FTFA/3_Butt_Cheeks: "On Friday police confirmed the death of an 18-year-old in south London, the 21st teenager to die of violence in the British capital this year, amid wider concerns about anti-social behaviour among young people on the streets"

It's no wonder more teens are carrying, genius journalist. Who wouldn't?

Walker: This theory would seem to be backed up by media reports, which have included photos taken from social networking sites showing young people proudly wielding knives and even machetes.

I can't wait until the Nanny State takes knives away from everybody and teenagers are forced to look tough while posing with stickssporks in their Facebook pictures.

FTFY

Nothing in his pockets but knives and lint...

Snarfangel: without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

California and the New England nanny states do ban many kind of bladed weapons.... sword canes, for instance. Virginia bans throwing stars.

What about led pipes. Are led pipes illegal?

Sucks if you're a ninja living in London.

Prison Weapons

There are still ways and means even if knives are banned.

Tassach: Snarfangel: without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

California and the New England nanny states do ban many kind of bladed weapons.... sword canes, for instance. Virginia bans throwing stars.

The Bowie Knife was made illegal back in its heyday.

hubiestubert: Crosshair: Much like the US, Britain seems determined to continue do follow policy that by every standard has been a dismal failure. In this case it has been civilian disarmament.

Less so the "disarmament" as subscribing to the folly of thinking that simplistic addressing of the symptoms of a problem, will do much good.

Violent crime isn't just a matter of tools and opportunity. If that were the case, the Swiss would be wracked with horrible violence, owing to the armed state of the populace. Same for the folks in Canuckistan who are pretty well armed, despite what folks who like to point fingers across our wide borders often like to admit.

Simply having or not having weapons doesn't solve the underlying causes of violence. It only changes the nature and style of the violence. If you don't address those issues, you don't see a change in the number of incidents as much as you change the style in which those crimes are committed. Which does change the statistics, and often in ways that allow folks to fudge a bit for their own purposes.

Weapons alone, their being in the hands of a populace or not, aren't the determining factor--they are often a symptom, but not the cause of violence or peaceable conduct. You have to factor in economic and social stability. How safe do citizens feel? How stressed is the populace? Are there safeties in place to catch citizens? Is there a culture that rewards violence? Is the populace encouraged by the State to act on its own? Ignored by the State in such a way that they feel they have to take matters into their own hands?

You can't encourage a populace to act in a certain fashion, and then dare to be surprised when it occurs. Be that the UK or the US. You remove a social safety net, and threaten the populace with economic and social instability, you can't be surprised when they begin to act in ways to protect themselves, or take matters into their own hands. You can certainly address the symptoms by cracking down, but until you remove the factors that lead to the violence, all you are going to do is change the style in which it is committed, or you can try to focus the debate on the criminals, as opposed to actually fixing the problem--which is in part how the UK has handled themselves, and the US treats its violent crimes.

So long as you address symptoms, you aren't going to fix a damn thing. Just throw a band aid over a big gaping wound, and hoping it heals on its own isn't a real smart way to treat the thing, but that's pretty much how the US and the UK seem to be dealing with things.

Your newsletter, subscription rates please.

still better than all these murderers with guns.

Who ever heard of a drive-by knifing?

And as much as you may of heard different, banning guns is not a "nonviolent" solution, as it imposes a systemic oppression, or systemic violence, to keep people from owning them. Nonviolent solutions would be counseling programs and improving education, and giving kids something better to do with their time.. maybe even.. I dunno, addressing their actual concerns and not treating them "like children" as much.

Well, I guess there can be ONLY one.

"They fear they're going to be attacked themselves," said Professor Gloria Laycock

Haha, Professor Laycock

Ah yes, the first weapon I carried was my Boy Scout knife. Order of the Arrow Ordeal weekends were especially fun, as the blood flowed from all the initiates cutting themselves while trying to carve the arrow they had to wear.

/good times

hubiestubert: AMS0000: hubiestubert: You are making sense and speaking truth, We'll have none of that here, be off with you...

Sorry about that. I'll go back to polishing my guns and muttering phrases about illegal immigrants...

You forgot about those mooslum turrests. Mooslum turrest that cross the messican border. =P

Of course when you outlaw guns or knives only outlaws will have them...because the very possession of them means you're breaking the law if you own a gun or knife, so therefore you're an outlaw.

/always thought that saying was idiotic

The problem remains to be conservatives wasting money on killing and annoying people in other parts of the world and ignoring the people in their own country. Spend money on prevention and then go after the knives. A gun can be used to kill a ton of people and from large distances. If forced to use a knife, the person is more likely to live, has to be attacked from much closer, and is unlikely to be able to go on a rampage.

Ban the knives and knife-related violence will go down. Gun violence in Britain is now completely gone. If the US wants to eliminate gun violence, it should do the same.

"We have seen the emergence of a worrying trend in relation to knife crime," said Scotland Yard's Deputy Assistant Commissioner Alf Hitchcock.

Presumably the trend is that they're being used to attack women in showers?

/Yeah, I know the boobies beat me to it.

I don't believe this article one bit. Taking away guns solves any and all violence.

/this is a hijack. We're taking this thread to Cuba

hubiestubert: Crosshair: Much like the US, Britain seems determined to continue do follow policy that by every standard has been a dismal failure. In this case it has been civilian disarmament.

Less so the "disarmament" as subscribing to the folly of thinking that simplistic addressing of the symptoms of a problem, will do much good.

Violent crime isn't just a matter of tools and opportunity. If that were the case, the Swiss would be wracked with horrible violence, owing to the armed state of the populace. Same for the folks in Canuckistan who are pretty well armed, despite what folks who like to point fingers across our wide borders often like to admit.

Simply having or not having weapons doesn't solve the underlying causes of violence. It only changes the nature and style of the violence. If you don't address those issues, you don't see a change in the number of incidents as much as you change the style in which those crimes are committed. Which does change the statistics, and often in ways that allow folks to fudge a bit for their own purposes.

Weapons alone, their being in the hands of a populace or not, aren't the determining factor--they are often a symptom, but not the cause of violence or peaceable conduct. You have to factor in economic and social stability. How safe do citizens feel? How stressed is the populace? Are there safeties in place to catch citizens? Is there a culture that rewards violence? Is the populace encouraged by the State to act on its own? Ignored by the State in such a way that they feel they have to take matters into their own hands?


Nice post hubiestubert. The problem in the UK is there has been a growing sub-culture of knife carrying and usage over the last 10 years. The estimate is 25% of those under 18 regularly carry a knife, and the recent murders have raised this issue to the public fore.

I'm not sure if there has been a massive rise in the rates of assaults or murders, or just the publicity given to them but there is now a large consensus in the UK that something has to be done.

Now you are right to a great extent that culture plays a big part, this is part of the reason I moved to Switzerland, but I don't see the vast majority of those in the knife-wielding demographic suddenly becoming all Alpine.

So, there are two basic options left. They could arm everyone else to balance things out, problem with this more idiots will have weapons and when you compare the murder rates between the UK and the USA firearm ownership isn't an attractive option - your rate is 4x the UK's.

The only reasonable option is to make the concept of carrying a knife as a weapon socially unacceptable, though a change in the perceived coolness of carrying a blade as well as the risks associated with having one from a legal perspective.

Will this work? Only tine will tell. If it doesn't was the UK right in tightening regulations? Well, unless you can change the predominant youth culture there ain't a lot else you can do.

This isn't a liberty issue, as a lot of Americans get all pissy about - like you with torture we define freedom differently to you septic's. - absolute versus effective.

Bith Set Me Up: Don't do what Donnie Don't does.

Came here to make that reference.

"They could have made this clearer."

Well, from what you see on TV news reports about the UK, their kids seem to go out, commit crimes and basically get slapped on the wrist and sent home.

I recall one report and video of this guy, maybe 19, who led the cops on a long car chase, endangering civilians all over the place, smacked into a few other cars, then ran his through a closed gate and wrecked it, popped out and ran. The cops caught him and he lost his driving license for a year and was given a stern warning!

I almost fell off my chair when I heard that.

Other reports have shown cops getting into fights with young men on the street and they might spend a few days in jail, have a small fine to pay and be back on the streets.

One kid, a chronic speeder, admitted he likes speeding, has been caught numerous times and paid fines, had his license removed, been ordered to retake driving school -- which, over there, is pretty costly -- but still floors it on the roads. Now and then, when the cops spot him, he likes to run from them for a bit. It's all great sport to him.

As a kid, I carried a knife. Nearly all of us boys did. We got them when we were like 7. We didn't ever consider using them in fights, but they were for whittling, cutting cord, slicing that stubborn orange stem to get the fruit off the tree and making swords from dried palm tree frond stems to battle knights and dragons with.

As Boy Scouts, a large Shiite knife was a part of our camping kit, along with a belt sheath and a machete.

I was sorely disappointed when I attended a big Boy Scout Camporee a few years ago to find that the bowie knives had been banned. Insurance reasons. The kids might get hurt and their parents might sue.

Anyone who has ever been a Boy Scout knows that on wilderness camps, the kids manage to find ways to get hurt without using any implements.

I do recall a time in the late 70s when suddenly, it seemed that 'thugs' started carrying around straight razors. Shortly after that I started seeing news reports of folks getting into fights, loosing and then coming back with a gun and killing the winner.

But, it all just proves that if folks want to mangle each other up, they don't need a gun to do it with. I recall people carrying brass knuckles, later they carried these collapsible, steel batons, some folks carried a leather pouch, filled with tiny lead shot, called a 'sap' to whack others in the head with. A cop I knew had leather gloves with fine lead shot sewn into the knuckles, back of the hand and the upper part of the fingers.

Man On Pink Corner: LocalCynic: Wait, nevermind. The NRA has re-written that to only apply to guns.

Nobody's stopping you from forming the National Knife Association, are they?

Well actually: Link (new window)

I still have my Toten' Chip.

Half Man Half Biscuit: The estimate is 25% of those under 18 regularly carry a knife, and the recent murders have raised this issue to the public fore.

This is a ridiculously misleading statistic, as it includes pocket knives which I believe are the majority of those carried. I also have a very hard time believing it's 25%, as approximately half those under 18 are under 9.

hubiestubert: AMS0000: hubiestubert: You are making sense and speaking truth, We'll have none of that here, be off with you...

Sorry about that. I'll go back to polishing my guns and muttering phrases about illegal immigrants...

Thanks. That would be much appreciated...

hubiestubert: AMS0000: hubiestubert: You are making sense and speaking truth, We'll have none of that here, be off with you...

Sorry about that. I'll go back to polishing my guns and muttering phrases about illegal immigrants...

Indeed.

According to the hand-wringers, I should be a horribly violent person, prone to randomly attacking folks on teh street. I own several swords and a couple of dozen knives (aside from the ones in the kitchen).
I haven't stabbed anyone, or even waved a knife at them, in about 30 years.

They can have my Totin' Chip when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

So what you guys are saying is I should shell out the $10 and see this one in the theaters?

Goofball_Jones: always thought that saying was idiotic
the idea is that the criminals don't obey the law, so the only people who will quit carrying guns are the law abiding citizens. The bad new guys are going to stay armed regardless. So telling people to obey this law is only taking it away from them.

When you establish terrible precedents they will be carried to terrible extremes. Tube socks will be next on the list when someone figure out that they can be filled with rocks and swung; Pantyhose when a rash criminals wear them over their head, or use them as garrotes.

pjc51: I also have a very hard time believing it's 25%, as approximately half those under 18 are under 9.

Shocking isn't it.

Link (PDF - new window)

Notice it's a Gov.UK link.

As noted above, there has been a gradual increase in violent crime since 2003,
but there are variations by specific offence. As the chart below illustrates, the
greatest increase is evident for the offences of 'hurting someone without the
requirement for medical treatment' (plus thirteen percentage points since
2002) and 'carrying a knife' (plus twelve percentage points since 2002).
The increase in the proportion of young people hurting someone without them
needing medical treatment is evident among both boys and girls: 37% of boys
and 27% of girls admitted the offence in 2002, compared with 49% and 41%
in 2005 respectively.

Are you aware the UK's youngest murderers were 10 years old when they committed their crime?

Six battery cattle prods maybe?

Came here for Surf Ninjas reference... not disappointed.

This was called years ago during the gun ban.

It's not Guns, or Knives, or baseball bats or nunchucks. Putting up your cameras won't help either.

It is widespread gang violence from a particular communities. Until the UK figures out its a gang problem and not a weapon problem, every couple years they will be faced with some "new" crime crisis.

Wow, fantastic article.

The headline totally represents the facts that:
Crime is at its lowest rate in teh UK for 10 years
Knife Crime figures have not changed significantly in 10 years.

In other words, the only thing that has gotten worse is media hype.

Tassach:California and the New England nanny states do ban many kind of bladed weapons.... sword canes, for instance. Virginia bans throwing stars.

Leave the rest of the New England states out of your generalizations. It's really only Massachusetts that's the true nanny state around here. Although it sometimes feels like Masshole stupidity is omnipresent, there is some sanity outside of their shiatty little state.

dooder0001: Snarfangel
Is there even knife control in the U.S.? I thought I could go online, pick out a two-handed sword, and whip out my credit card, without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

In MA, many bladed weapons are banned. You can't have knives over a certain length and traditional martial arts weapons, such as swords and nunchucks, are banned. I don't know about plain staffs but I wouldn't be surprised. So don't remove that broom from its handle if you know what's best for you.

Most places knives and swords of almost any kind are legal to purchase/own/collect/display, but the length of the blade you are allowed to carry on your person is limited. In Oklahoma, for example I can own pretty much any bladed weapon, including switchblades, but can only legally carry basically a pocket knife. Exceptions are made for knives used while hunting, etc.

Remove all Republicans: Gun violence in Britain is now completely gone. If the US wants to eliminate gun violence, it should do the same.

Errr...what?

hubiestubert: Crosshair: Much like the US, Britain seems determined to continue do follow policy that by every standard has been a dismal failure. In this case it has been civilian disarmament.

Less so the "disarmament" as subscribing to the folly of thinking that simplistic addressing of the symptoms of a problem, will do much good.

Violent crime isn't just a matter of tools and opportunity. If that were the case, the Swiss would be wracked with horrible violence, owing to the armed state of the populace. Same for the folks in Canuckistan who are pretty well armed, despite what folks who like to point fingers across our wide borders often like to admit.

Simply having or not having weapons doesn't solve the underlying causes of violence. It only changes the nature and style of the violence. If you don't address those issues, you don't see a change in the number of incidents as much as you change the style in which those crimes are committed. Which does change the statistics, and often in ways that allow folks to fudge a bit for their own purposes.

Weapons alone, their being in the hands of a populace or not, aren't the determining factor--they are often a symptom, but not the cause of violence or peaceable conduct. You have to factor in economic and social stability. How safe do citizens feel? How stressed is the populace? Are there safeties in place to catch citizens? Is there a culture that rewards violence? Is the populace encouraged by the State to act on its own? Ignored by the State in such a way that they feel they have to take matters into their own hands?

You can't encourage a populace to act in a certain fashion, and then dare to be surprised when it occurs. Be that the UK or the US. You remove a social safety net, and threaten the populace with economic and social instability, you can't be surprised when they begin to act in ways to protect themselves, or take matters into their own hands. You can certainly address the symptoms by cracking down, but until you remove the factors that lead to the violence, all you are going to do is change the style in which it is committed, or you can try to focus the debate on the criminals, as opposed to actually fixing the problem--which is in part how the UK has handled themselves, and the US treats its violent crimes.

So long as you address symptoms, you aren't going to fix a damn thing. Just throw a band aid over a big gaping wound, and hoping it heals on its own isn't a real smart way to treat the thing, but that's pretty much how the US and the UK seem to be dealing with things.

Great post. Minor threadjack, but I'm going to e-mail you to see where you cook.

Fark headline from six months in the future: "After Britain forces every citizen to have their hands cut off, the rise of nub and foot attacks causes Parliament to rule every citizen made a paraplegic. EVERYONE CRAWL"

Walker: This theory would seem to be backed up by media reports, which have included photos taken from social networking sites showing young people proudly wielding knives and even machetes.

I can't wait until the Nanny State takes knives away from everybody and teenagers are forced to look tough while posing with sticks in their Facebook pictures.

LOL I can see that pic .

Ihaveanevilparrot: Remove all Republicans: Gun violence in Britain is now completely gone. If the US wants to eliminate gun violence, it should do the same.

Errr...what?

What? Guns are banned and now gun violence is gone. Simple as that. Ban guns in the US and gun violence will be gone as well. This isn't drugs or something like that.

hubiestubert: You remove a social safety net, and threaten the populace with economic and social instability, you can't be surprised when they begin to act in ways to protect themselves, or take matters into their own hands.

Nice theory, but the UK has spunked more money, in real terms, on welfare in the past 10 years, at the same time that knife crime has gone out of control. So, blaming it on not enough welfare doesn't stick.

The real problem is about a lack of incentives. You're unlikely to be imprisoned, a criminal record has no impact, as you're probably living on the dole, and you might get some money to help support a drug dealer, why the fark not?

The answers are simple:-
1. Get rid of the war on drugs.
2. Lower taxes for those on low incomes.
3. Make welfare a survival option only. No cash, just food stamps. Demeaning? Yes, it's supposed to be.
4. Give kids the option of a more practical education at the age of 14 instead of having them wasting their time doing crap that they don't care about for 2 years.

Remove all Republicans: The problem remains to be conservatives wasting money on killing and annoying people in other parts of the world and ignoring the people in their own country. Spend money on prevention and then go after the knives. A gun can be used to kill a ton of people and from large distances. If forced to use a knife, the person is more likely to live, has to be attacked from much closer, and is unlikely to be able to go on a rampage.

Ban the knives and knife-related violence will go down. Gun violence in Britain is now completely gone. If the US wants to eliminate gun violence, it should do the same.

You just keep telling yourself that. History has proven that there is almost no way to stop violent people from doing violent things other than killing them when they try.
The facts refute your statistic.
If you want violence to go down, society needs stop glorifying thug culture and turn it's efforts to rearing good, upstanding citizens. (Oh wait, that would require preventing thugs from "expressing themselves". Not P.C., my bad)

Stratigus64: If you want violence to go down, society needs stop glorifying thug culture and turn it's efforts to rearing good, upstanding citizens. (Oh wait, that would require preventing thugs from "expressing themselves". Not P.C., my bad)

Who's talking about all violence? That's a separate problem. I'm focusing on solving this one step at a time. England can now worry about knife crime. They are already one step ahead of the US. We need to beat them to the punch and ban it all in one fell swoop.

Snarfangel:
Is there even knife control in the U.S.? I thought I could go online, pick out a two-handed sword, and whip out my credit card, without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

Mostly on a state-by-state basis. Easily-opened folding knives -- gravity knives, auto knives, et al -- are often frowned upon (but assisted-openers tend to be legal, AFAIK). Ballistic knives don't get much love, either.

Length restrictions often exist regarding what you can carry.

Remove all Republicans: If forced to use a knife, the person is more likely to live, has to be attacked from much closer, and is unlikely to be able to go on a rampage.

Ban the knives and knife-related violence will go down. Gun violence in Britain is now completely gone. If the US wants to eliminate gun violence, it should do the same.

You aren't that farking stupid are you? If you have 1,000 murders, does it really matter if it was guns or knives?

In point of fact the murder rate in the UK is increasing. A 20% increase in the past decade. AFTER your hand gun ban.

But don't worry. You DID reduce your gun crime. You should all go out and celebrate your decrease in gun crime. Just ignore that 20% increase in murders.

As for rampages? Which is a stupid farking rationale to consider for stopping crime. A man this summer in Japan killed 7 people.

Remove all Republicans:
Who's talking about all violence? That's a separate problem. I'm focusing on solving this one step at a time. England can now worry about knife crime. They are already one step ahead of the US. We need to beat them to the punch and ban it all in one fell swoop.

Making weapons illegal one by one is not the solution, not to mention it is an infringement on the rights of law-abiding citizens. You say: England can now worry about knife crime. So by outlawing knives, it's gonna stop criminals from using them? No, because they are CRIMINALS! They don't CARE what the laws say! And even if you purge a nation of weapons one by one, how is that achieving your goal? Let me rephrase that: What exactly IS your goal, if not to reduce "all violence?

Remove all Republicans: Stratigus64: If you want violence to go down, society needs stop glorifying thug culture and turn it's efforts to rearing good, upstanding citizens. (Oh wait, that would require preventing thugs from "expressing themselves". Not P.C., my bad)

Who's talking about all violence? That's a separate problem. I'm focusing on solving this one step at a time. England can now worry about knife crime. They are already one step ahead of the US. We need to beat them to the punch and ban it all in one fell swoop.

You're 12 or an idiot. Possibly both.

Remove all Republicans: Ihaveanevilparrot: Remove all Republicans: Gun violence in Britain is now completely gone. If the US wants to eliminate gun violence, it should do the same.

Errr...what?

What? Guns are banned and now gun violence is gone. Simple as that. Ban guns in the US and gun violence will be gone as well. This isn't drugs or something like that.

Begone, Troll! Back to your bridge!

Korovyov: Snarfangel:
Is there even knife control in the U.S.? I thought I could go online, pick out a two-handed sword, and whip out my credit card, without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

Mostly on a state-by-state basis. Easily-opened folding knives -- gravity knives, auto knives, et al -- are often frowned upon (but assisted-openers tend to be legal, AFAIK). Ballistic knives don't get much love, either.

Length restrictions often exist regarding what you can carry.

My city has a restriction one past my state. Check urban statutes too, just to be safe.

For the record we did have a drive by knifing last year... but its the US so it doesn't count

hubiestubert: Crosshair: Much like the US, Britain seems determined to continue do follow policy that by every standard has been a dismal failure. In this case it has been civilian disarmament.

Less so the "disarmament" as subscribing to the folly of thinking that simplistic addressing of the symptoms of a problem, will do much good.

Violent crime isn't just a matter of tools and opportunity. If that were the case, the Swiss would be wracked with horrible violence, owing to the armed state of the populace. Same for the folks in Canuckistan who are pretty well armed, despite what folks who like to point fingers across our wide borders often like to admit.

Simply having or not having weapons doesn't solve the underlying causes of violence. It only changes the nature and style of the violence. If you don't address those issues, you don't see a change in the number of incidents as much as you change the style in which those crimes are committed. Which does change the statistics, and often in ways that allow folks to fudge a bit for their own purposes.

Weapons alone, their being in the hands of a populace or not, aren't the determining factor--they are often a symptom, but not the cause of violence or peaceable conduct. You have to factor in economic and social stability. How safe do citizens feel? How stressed is the populace? Are there safeties in place to catch citizens? Is there a culture that rewards violence? Is the populace encouraged by the State to act on its own? Ignored by the State in such a way that they feel they have to take matters into their own hands?

You can't encourage a populace to act in a certain fashion, and then dare to be surprised when it occurs. Be that the UK or the US. You remove a social safety net, and threaten the populace with economic and social instability, you can't be surprised when they begin to act in ways to protect themselves, or take matters into their own hands. You can certainly address the symptoms by cracking down, but until you remove the factors that lead to the violence, all you are going to do is change the style in which it is committed, or you can try to focus the debate on the criminals, as opposed to actually fixing the problem--which is in part how the UK has handled themselves, and the US treats its violent crimes.

So long as you address symptoms, you aren't going to fix a damn thing. Just throw a band aid over a big gaping wound, and hoping it heals on its own isn't a real smart way to treat the thing, but that's pretty much how the US and the UK seem to be dealing with things.

We don't want none of your fancy book learnings 'round this way sir, be off with you.
\Honestly though nice writing.

nuclear_asshat: Remove all Republicans: If forced to use a knife, the person is more likely to live, has to be attacked from much closer, and is unlikely to be able to go on a rampage.

Ban the knives and knife-related violence will go down. Gun violence in Britain is now completely gone. If the US wants to eliminate gun violence, it should do the same.

You aren't that farking stupid are you? If you have 1,000 murders, does it really matter if it was guns or knives?

In point of fact the murder rate in the UK is increasing. A 20% increase in the past decade. AFTER your hand gun ban.

But don't worry. You DID reduce your gun crime. You should all go out and celebrate your decrease in gun crime. Just ignore that 20% increase in murders.

As for rampages? Which is a stupid farking rationale to consider for stopping crime. A man this summer in Japan killed 7 people.

Firstly, Remove all Republicans is probably not from the UK (where there is no "Republican" party) and is in all likelihood a troll.

Secondly, source for the 20% increase statistic?

Remove all Republicans: Gun violence in Britain is now completely gone.

No, actually gun crime has gone up since the ban.

Not that they ever had much to begin with, but don't let the facts dissuade you.

Korovyov: Snarfangel:
Is there even knife control in the U.S.? I thought I could go online, pick out a two-handed sword, and whip out my credit card, without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

Mostly on a state-by-state basis. Easily-opened folding knives -- gravity knives, auto knives, et al -- are often frowned upon (but assisted-openers tend to be legal, AFAIK). Ballistic knives don't get much love, either.

Length restrictions often exist regarding what you can carry.

Thats why I keep my penis well concealed at all times.

thefatbasturd: dooder0001: Snarfangel
Is there even knife control in the U.S.? I thought I could go online, pick out a two-handed sword, and whip out my credit card, without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

In MA, many bladed weapons are banned. You can't have knives over a certain length and traditional martial arts weapons, such as swords and nunchucks, are banned. I don't know about plain staffs but I wouldn't be surprised. So don't remove that broom from its handle if you know what's best for you.

Most places knives and swords of almost any kind are legal to purchase/own/collect/display, but the length of the blade you are allowed to carry on your person is limited. In Oklahoma, for example I can own pretty much any bladed weapon, including switchblades, but can only legally carry basically a pocket knife. Exceptions are made for knives used while hunting, etc.

Maryland has no length law, neither does Baltimore City. The regs are written as "officer's discression so your behavior is the determination if you are Korovyov: Snarfangel:
Is there even knife control in the U.S.? I thought I could go online, pick out a two-handed sword, and whip out my credit card, without a waiting period or worrying about an assault sword ban.

Mostly on a state-by-state basis. Easily-opened folding knives -- gravity knives, auto knives, et al -- are often frowned upon (but assisted-openers tend to be legal, AFAIK). Ballistic knives don't get much love, either.

Length restrictions often exist regarding what you can carry.

No length law in Baltimore. WOOO!

DeRosso: What about led pipes. Are led pipes illegal?

Yes. But Led Zeppelins are still legal.

I love weapon threads.

Britain bans guns: Increase in violent crime involving knives and swords, also increased violent crime and armed robbery in general

Why not? no one legit is carrying a gun!

Britain bans swords: Increase in violent crime involving regular knives, also increased the amount of knives used in domestic disputes

Why not? everyone carries a knife now because of the increased violence

I hate to use the whole slippery slope argument... I normally say it is a weak stance, but Britain is watching it happen...

As a side note, I keep a blade on me for practical reasons... use it all the time...

/also mugged 3 times
//had a blade on me once during that time, reached for but never drawn

Night Train Express: Remove all Republicans: Gun violence in Britain is now completely gone.

No, actually gun crime has gone up since the ban.

I'm curious how much of that 'increase in gun crime' is attributed to simply crime of possession -- that is, something that wouldn't have been a crime at all before the law made it illegal.

To truly compare before and after, you'd need to count only crimes whose legality and reporting were the same before and after the law. If you expand the scope of "gun crimes" to include owning a gun, obviously the number of gun crimes will go up, just because you've added new crimes into that category.

When my dad was a kid growing up in the countryside in Sweden, he and most other boys carried a Mora knife on their belt. Even to school. It was considered just a tool.

Awesome all-purpose knives, btw.

It's funny how much people worry about reducing 'gun violence' and 'knife violence', but don't really seem concerned about the overall level of violence. Violent people are going to cause trouble regardless of whether the have a gun, a knife, or just some heavy boots.

I carry these every day:


/yet to shoot or stab a person.
//boxes javalina and coyotes have been more troublesome.

Don't forget the Junior Campers.

farkeruk: Nice theory, but the UK has spunked more money, in real terms, on welfare in the past 10 years, at the same time that knife crime has gone out of control. So, blaming it on not enough welfare doesn't stick.

The real problem is about a lack of incentives. You're unlikely to be imprisoned, a criminal record has no impact, as you're probably living on the dole, and you might get some money to help support a drug dealer, why the fark not?

The answers are simple:-
1. Get rid of the war on drugs.
2. Lower taxes for those on low incomes.
3. Make welfare a survival option only. No cash, just food stamps. Demeaning? Yes, it's supposed to be.
4. Give kids the option of a more practical education at the age of 14 instead of having them wasting their time doing crap that they don't care about for 2 years.

The UK may have some funding, but it hasn't addressed the underlying causes.

There is graphic instability in the populace and the "welfare" in the UK doesn't address the underlying issues of instability in the state. You have an increasing Big Brother influence in the UK, as a means to curb the problems that Britannia faces, yet, you don't have means to actually get jobs, address the issues of discrimination, and allay the fears of the populace.

That, is the real bugbear. Not the amount of money spent, but the effect and efficacy of those funds. The dole doesn't mean that folks feel any safer. Nor do they have any real means or will to address the underlying instability in their social programs.

Folks who have a solid safety net--and while there is indeed a dole system in the UK, it has much the same effect of methadone on a heroin addict, in that it curbs the cravings, it delivers no satisfaction, like a job well done and the security of a real job and future.

I've gotta admit, Remove all Republicans really seems to have a knack for this. He might as well have hung out a sign saying "look at me, I'm a troll!", and he STILL gets people to bite.

/my grudging admiration, you has it

Luthiel: I've gotta admit, Remove all Republicans really seems to have a knack for this. He might as well have hung out a sign saying "look at me, I'm a troll!", and he STILL gets people to bite.

/my grudging admiration, you has it

You know, my Ignore list would be much more effective if y'all would stop stroking the folks who are on it...

JesseL: I carry these every day:
/yet to shoot or stab a person.
//boxes javalina and coyotes have been more troublesome.

Holy shiat. You must live in one farked-up country to have to feel you need that shiat.

Can't you emigrate somewhere civilized? Do you have transferrable skills?

Remove all Republicans

Many places have tried what you suggest. The problem is that the bans don't work. The first gun ban was enacted in 1517 and banned the dangerous wheel-lock pistol.

It was noted in 1532 by the Nuremberg city council that while citizens were not allowed to own wheel-lock pistols, virtually all highwaymen and robbers carried them.

There there is nearly 500 years of failure behind gun bans. Continuing to advocate them is openly admitting ones complete ignorance on the issue.

CluelessMoron: Holy shiat. You must live in one farked-up country to have to feel you need that shiat.

One of the reasons I have those things is to reduce the odds I'll ever need them. I feel that I live in a pretty decent area, at least partly due to the fact that I still have the right to have that shiat.

People that would use the threat of violence against decent people don't tend to be very successful here. Disarming the decent people would only play into the hands of the criminals.

Goofball_Jones: Of course when you outlaw guns or knives only outlaws will have them...because the very possession of them means you're breaking the law if you own a gun or knife, so therefore you're an outlaw.

/always thought that saying was idiotic

See, the assumption is that only law-abiding folks will care about following the law when they are forced to turn in their weapons. People who would be in possession of a gun or knife after a banning would generally not give two tugs of a dead dog's dick about following any laws. Another assumption to the first is that since a questionable individual doesn't care about breaking one law, he or she may not care about breaking others. They've got an illegal knife or gun, they'll very well use it because when they're caught and tried they're going to be punished anyway and therefore have nothing to lose.

As soon as knives are banned, Britian will rediscover it's old fascination with the hammer.

It's Hammer time!

hubiestubert: AMS0000: hubiestubert: You are making sense and speaking truth, We'll have none of that here, be off with you...

Sorry about that. I'll go back to polishing my guns and muttering phrases about illegal immigrants...

Need company? I've got several AR15's and a dozen pistols that are in desperate need of cleaning. I'll buy the Taco Bell.

Dalar: still better than all these murderers with guns.

Who ever heard of a drive-by knifing?

Ever hear of the Crusades?

Remove all Republicans: The problem remains to be conservatives wasting money on killing and annoying people in other parts of the world and ignoring the people in their own country. Spend money on prevention and then go after the knives. A gun can be used to kill a ton of people and from large distances. If forced to use a knife, the person is more likely to live, has to be attacked from much closer, and is unlikely to be able to go on a rampage.

Killing a "ton" of people with a gun isn't as easy as you may think. Particularly if the other people are shooting back. Go check the casualty statistics for small arms in the Vietnam War.

Knives are far more lethal than you give them credit.

Ban the knives and knife-related violence will go down.

I am real curious as to how that could possibly be accomplished, given that knife making is a two million year-old technology.

Gun violence in Britain is now completely gone. If the US wants to eliminate gun violence, it should do the same.

Not true (new window)

Issor: Fark headline from six months in the future: "After Britain forces every citizen to have their hands cut off, the rise of nub and foot attacks causes Parliament to rule every citizen made a paraplegic. EVERYONE CRAWL"

That's not far away from the premise of Bernard Wolfe's Limbo.

mad_prophet_tx: I am real curious as to how that could possibly be accomplished, given that knife making is a two million year-old technology.

Guns are a few thousand years old in technology. If we can ban them, we can surely ban knives. We just need the political will.

Remove all Republicans: Guns are a few thousand years old in technology. If we can ban them, we can surely ban knives. We just need the political will.

Wow, multifail.

1. Just because you can ban guns (or knives) doesn't mean people won't have them. In all likelihood all you'll achieve is that only the wrong people have them.

2. Gunpowder was in vented in the 9th century and guns didn't come into being until the 13th century. Guns are a technology about 800 years old.

When are you going to push for a pointy stick ban?

JesseLWhen are you going to push for a pointy stick ban?

Win. Banning everything is never going to solve anything.
Eventually Remove all Republicans wants to ban even thinking about pointy sticks, in all likelihood.

JesseL: 1. Just because you can ban guns (or knives) doesn't mean people won't have them. In all likelihood all you'll achieve is that only the wrong people have them.

We have a ban on murder and assault. Doesn't mean people won't do it. In fact, all we've achieved is that only the wrong people commit those crimes now. Doesn't mean I would support legalizing those crimes now.

Stratigus64: Eventually Remove all Republicans wants to ban even thinking about pointy sticks, in all likelihood.

Also, what's with the pointy sticks references? Doesn't anybody watch the Simpsons anymore? It's a board with a nail (^) that's going to save us all!

Remove all Republicans: We have a ban on murder and assault. Doesn't mean people won't do it. In fact, all we've achieved is that only the wrong people commit those crimes now. Doesn't mean I would support legalizing those crimes now.

There is a stark fundamental difference between murder or assault and mere possession of a particular inanimate object.

We ban murder and assault because they are direct infringements on the rights of others. Possession of a weapon is a completely harmless activity. Nobody is suffering as a result of the gun and knife I have right now.

If somebody uses a gun or knife to assault or murder someone, as you said the existing law didn't stop them - why would you think another law would be any obstacle to them? Why would you take away my rights just to create a law that's worthless for actually doing any good?

Disarming a peaceful man is an intolerable act of violence.

1000Monkeys:
Secondly, source for the 20% increase statistic?

His ass. Crime in the UK is at its lowest in 10 years, and knife crime rates have, despite media hype, remained steady.

Remove all Republicans:

Guns are a few thousand years old in technology.

ORLY?

So are guns how people protected themselves from dinosaurs before the flood?