Talk:Cramp

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[edit] text replaced

I replaced the text below as it comes virtually word for word from a page linked to by the article (http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/what-are-cramps.shtml)

"Nocturnal leg cramps are sudden, involuntary contractions of the calves that occur during the night or while at rest. Occasionally, muscles in the soles of the feet also become cramped. The sensation can last a few seconds or up to 10 minutes, but the soreness may linger. The cramps can affect persons in any age-group, but they tend to occur in middle-aged and older populations".

Robertbrockway 07:45, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] tool name

Cramp is also a tool, but I'm afraid I don't know enough English to tell much more about it, see in stead

Salaman, R. A.: Dictionary of Woodworking tools ISBN 0-04-440256-2

--Baskholm 10:31, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Misinformation

Cramping is NOT caused by lactic acid, it's caused by acidosis of the muscle cells because the pH buffers become overloaded from rapid ATP synthesis. See the lactic acid article for more information. Your gym teacher and average uneducated athlete will beg to differ but science doesn't lie. There's no properties of lactic acid that would cause the burning and cramping sensation associated with oxygen shortage. Also reading about the enzyme ATP synthase will also provide more evidence that a low pH condition is the culprit.

I will substitute this information in one week and provide a source. --Novaprospekt 02:21, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I have heard that it is due to lactic acid, which to me didn't seem to contradict the obvious fact that it is to do with Acidosis. That is interesting information, Novaprospekt. 219.89.145.85 (talk) 13:53, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reorg needed

I think that this article needs serious reorganization, something like:

But I don't know enough to be sure this makes sense. For example, is the distinction between smooth and skeletal muscle important? Is the fundamental mechanism the same? Lastly, is ibuprofen the only treatment? Why doesn't aspirin, etc. treat it? Joshuardavis 17:36, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cures

Regarding nocturnal leg cramps, an instant cure is to reach over and pull back on your toes. I'm not sure why it works (I guess it stretches the muscle and allows it to breathe) but it does and makes the pain go away almost immediately. Good luck trying to remember to do this when you're woken up in the middle of the night from it. Last night I forgot. : (

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I was advised to stand on my leg and walk around after I got a cramp while watching David Letterman last night. I tried it, since the friend who recommended it went to a massage college, and it worked great. My advice would be the same, stand up, and walk around. --69.247.169.233 00:26, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

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Some friends and I were discussing this problem and one said he made a loop in a string above the ankle of the offending leg while another said he simply used a rubber band. Both swore that this simple cure worked and I tried it and it worked. I suggested my wife try it and it also worked. I can't explain why, all I know is that it works. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.60.107.254 (talk) 01:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Better sources

I think this article should have more reputable sources (i.e. no digitalnaturopath.com) Start with http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/musclecramps.html

[edit] personal experience

I had some severe leg cramps last night so I searched the subject and melded it with my personal experience of the last several years. Proba 18:11, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nocturnal Leg Cramps

"An unrelated condition is restless legs syndrome, an unpleasant sensation that is relieved by moving the leg, but which rarely includes cramping or pain."--If it's unrelated, why mention it? Koberulz 12:24, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Because the cure is the same FinalWish 02:29, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

The article no longer is explicit about RLS being different from cramps. Which may be unfortunate, since some web information does wrongly confuse them. -69.87.200.59 (talk) 10:43, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dangers of cramps

I think the sudden extreme pain and resulting loss of judgment and decision-making ability associated with cramps should be mentioned. This can be dangerous when encountered in situations such as swimming, driving, or biking. More expansion on how cramps can be caused by overextending muscles, such as when yawning, would be nice.

Good point. I also wonder if there is any evidence that cramps can cause damage to muscle tissue, and if such damage is possible is it reversible? Pgr94 (talk) 23:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Self-induced cramp

"Self-induced cramp is brought on purposefully by individuals for the purpose of stretching muscle in a position where standing or greater movement is difficult or impossible. For instance, certain workers or craftsmen may find inducing cramp in the lower legs enables them to stretch desirable muscle groups without the need to physically stand in tight spaces."

This section makes little sense, and should be greatly improved, or removed.

A cramp is a prolonged involuntary spasm of a muscle. So "self-induced" is a hard concept to apply. Not impossible, but certainly requiring a detailed explanation.

A cramp is a muscle CONTRACTION. The wording above refers to stretching. So how does this make any sense? -69.87.200.59 (talk) 10:49, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Muscle groups work against eachother. As one muscle contracts, the other stretches. Cramps can be induced voluntarily by overstressing muscles in certain ways. Inducing the cramp is voluntary in this case, but the muscle movement of the cramp itself is involuntary. I agree this section should be improved, but what I just said is off the top of my head, I have no source. I do think however I will edit it to make it seem less like a reccomendation. It sounds like a pretty bad idea and Wikipedia is NOT a doctor. -Verdatum (talk) 19:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't find any sources that mention the term "Self-induced cramp" in regards to stretching, so I just removed it altogether. While it's certainly possible to induce a cramp, that isn't terribly interesting/informative in itself, certainly not without a Reliable Source. -Verdatum (talk) 19:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Causes

This most important section of the article needs a great deal of work. Right now it is an impressive-sounding collection of nearly useless fancy phrases.

The concept of cause in this case applies at many different levels. We want to understand the immediate technical local scientific anatomical chemical cause of the involuntary contraction of a voluntary muscle. And then we want to understand what causes that. And then we want to understand what causes that!

Logically, this should start with a little summary of the ordinary sequence of the brain or spine sending an electrical/chemical signal to a muscle. Then we could be told what is going wrong with this normal picture in the case of a cramp. Then we could be told what the background causes of that are. Then we could be told some practical ways of possibly fixing the problem.

As things stand, I don't understand the cause, and I'm not convinced anyone does.

It is particularly notable that just part of a major muscle group may highly contract, which you could not do on purpose. This aspect of how much of the muscle is affected must contain clues about what level the mis-function is happening at -- it would seem to suggest that the misfunction is fairly local to the muscle? -69.87.200.59 (talk) 11:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References, what on earth is going on!?

I don't understand exactly what I'm looking at; nor do I have time to fix it if it's borked (sorry) but what's the deal with the citations? They all say something about Cache-Control, which if I'm not mistaken is today with the HyperText Transfer Protocol, NOT muscle cramps or Journals. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cramp#cite_note-4 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cramp#cite_note-8 .. Seriously, the references are great but there's weird stuff in the actual notes that I just don't understand. Thanks for your attention in this matter, guys, great article :) sorry if I'm simply confused. 219.89.145.85 (talk) 13:51, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cramp not whole muscle

A muscle (or even a few fibers of a muscle) that involuntarily (without consciously willing it) contracts is called a "spasm." If the spasm is forceful and sustained, it becomes a cramp.[1]

Almost every discussion of nocturnal leg cramps, including this article, are wrongly vague. They refer to "muscle", without mentioning that the involuntary contraction is usually NOT the whole muscle, but rather just a little part of it, very abnormal, not a contraction that would ever occur normally. -69.87.200.196 (talk) 12:54, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Interesting information. I only just scanned the source provided, but can you provide a quote that supports the "usually" part of your claim? All I see is that is can involve only part of the muscle. -Verdatum (talk) 16:57, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Euphemism?

In the phrase "and in some people while they are exercising at night.", is exercising at night a euphemism? If so then we should say what we really mean :) DavidFarmbrough (talk) 10:44, 2 December 2008 (UTC)