Talk:Concubinage
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[edit] Can men be concubines to women?
Is there anywhere in history they have been? I've heard somewhere in Africa women are regarded as superior and the men take their last names rather than the other way around. 68.189.241.158 (talk) 02:07, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Eh?
Although the nature of a concubine relationship is defined, the nature of sex within that relationship is not explicitly stated. Shouldn't that be more clear? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.70.200.56 (talk) 06:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] pilegesh
I don't think pilegesh should be merged into concubinage(as someone has proposed on pilegesh page) pilegesh is a a term primarily used in the context of Judaism and Jewish law and thus should have a separate article like mutah (a Muslim form of a pilegesh like relationship)has. 71.236.185.58 17:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Reservations regarding article content
I have some serious reservations about this entry as it stands.
1) AFAIK, in many societies that practiced concubinage, it was a specific legal status and concubines had specific rights, though not equal to those of a spouse.
2) Therefore, the "concubinal relationship" is not similar to modern Common law marriage or de facto marriage.
Comments?
- If you have some concrete information, add it. Be bold! :) —Frecklefoot 16:57, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Added the reference starting with "In ancient times..." to the first section. Prof Philip Daileader mentions this in his series of lecture on the Early Middle Ages, produced by The Teaching Company. I have been unable to find a print source for the same material.
[edit] Common Law
Removed reference to common law marriage. A common law marriage is a marriage.
[edit] Article name
Is "Concubinage" the best name for this article? It makes the writing and reading awkward and obscures the meaning. Wouldn't it be more correct to name the article "Concubine" and re-write the article for that reference? —Frecklefoot 16:57, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Why was this re-directed from Living Together?
I think this category has a very judgmental sound to it. Concubinage implies slavery and many couples who live together outside of marriage do so with mutual consent. To lump all cohabiting couples with sexual slaves is unfair, and it shows a bias towards marriage.
Quite - the article, or at least the initial (sophomoric) sections - should be deleted in toto as they cannot be salvaged. The main problem is not the judgmental tone, but the fact that it talks about entirely different types of relationships. WikiFlier 08:58, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Heterosexual vs. homosexual cohabitation
The article includes the following:
- Several US states legislatively forbid cohabitation between heterosexual partners. The law is not typically enforced, but various public agencies are said to discriminate against their employees using such laws. Some civil rights activists believe that such use of the law is unconstitutional, and provides homosexuals with rights denied to heterosexuals.
That passage is in need of some serious verification. First, can anyone name states that outlaw heterosexual cohabitation but have no laws that would extend to homosexual cohabitation? For obvious reasons, states that had sodomy laws up until Lawrence v. Texas don't count. Second, if "some civil rights activists" genuinely believe such a thing, then names, direct quotations, and primary sources are in order. Otherwise, the reference to "some civil rights activists" is just so many weasel words. Doctor Whom 17:53, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
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- IMO, this passage misrepresents the laws. Some anti-homosexual groups use this argument in relation to protected domestic partnerships. Pretty sure that Georgia has some laws controlling welfare benifits that disallow co-habitation. More often enforced against heterosexual co-habitation. But it has been used against homosexual co-habitation, too. Will check sources for clarification. --FloNight 09:54, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Total Misunderstanding of Term
For all the sophomoric outrage at unequal relationships, male superiority etc., the term concubine does NOT simply mean "living together without obligation".
Rather, a concubine is a lower grade quasi-wife and as such entitled to a certain level of economic support. Similarly, her children have a defined status as children of the father. Where there are no "legitimate" heirs, the child of a concubine may inherit the father's position and estate.
A concubine remains exclusively attached to her man for life, or at least for a long period of time. The term "concubine" also implies the existence of a higher class wife.
The term concubina is well defined, for example, in Mexican law. See for example this decision by a California court dealing with the concept of concubina under Mexican law.
In Japan, the most famous emperor of recent times, the Meiji emperor, was the son of a concubine. He was groomed for the succession because other potential heirs were deemed unsuitable.
To sum up, a concubine is far more than a partner in a casual relationship. The difference is precisely that she does have - limited - rights as a minor spouse. She may even have gone through a form of "wedding" with the "husband". WikiFlier 09:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Concubinage rules
196.205.156.215 21:59, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
In Al Nissaa 3, The Quran mentions that you may marry one wife or live with a concubine ما ملكت أيمانكم. I need your help with details about this relationship and its rules and borderlines.
I've removed the reference to Hinduism and Buddhism as they clearly don't follow the Christian Bible. If you can find a reference to concubines in the sutras feel free to re add.. Secretlondon (talk) 00:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Solomon fact
says 300 wives, 700 concubines here, on the wiki page for Solomon, its reversed, just thought i'd let someone know —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.217.116.31 (talk) 22:49, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] The Future of Concubinage
I suggest a section on the Future of Concubinage. As societies get richer and better organised, there will be increased possibilities for men to maintain kept women or concubines, and the richer the society, the more men in that society will seem like sugar daddies, regardless of their age. I can see a future of specialised, advanced societies where conventional marriage is rare and most sexual relationships are between masters and concubines. Such societies would rely on immigration from mainstream societies to maintain population.
Some women like strong gender role segregation. Female identity includes being desirable and subordinate to men, and many women will appreciate the opportunity to have their female identity recognised and appreciated. Male identity includes dominating and cherishing women, and some men will appreciate the opportunity to both dominate and cherish women, and will take pride in giving them delightful, carefree lives.
The acid test of such wealthy, advanced societies is that young women will clamour to enter them, and there will be no question of unwilling concubines.
Sugar Daddy58.165.167.146 (talk) 06:33, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
