In a forum that I frequent a topic came up that struck a chord with me. Someone mentioned how politics and religion are very much alike. How, that when you mess with people's core beliefs they get quite nasty. We were also discussing how when people give up their self control for what they believe in...it is worrisome. So, below are my thoughts on the subject...
There is a very real reason that politics & religion can and will never be separate (although, in the perfect world--I would have them be for sanity's sake). The reason that they will not be separate is precisely what was said in the above post. Faith in a leader. Human beings put an inordinate amount of wishful type dreams/aspirations in whoever they deem to be in charge. Whether that person in charge is the president or god. They look to leaders to take up from where their frailties/inadequacies leave off. We do not like being limited (as a species), so we make up a greater power if need be (and this is my opinion on where religion came from). So, with this in mind...this is the "god shaped hole" that we talk about occasionally.
Why do you think that for as long as their have been humans, their have been magical gods that have been written about? This directly correlates with the system of governments we elect. Every country has a person (singular) that they elect to rule over them (because they do not trust themselves enough to make the big decisions). We elect these "gods" and expect superhuman abilities from them (ex., world peace, elimination of poverty, wealth distribution, etc). For instance, Korea...it is demanded that they WORSHIP the leader and his son. Hello...what about this does not SCREAM religion???
Then, where those leaders are inadequate we look to invisible fairy tale creatures.
See, we have absolutely no proof of a higher power (with the exception of things in nature science can not YET explain--and absence of proof is not proof despite what Kirk Cameron and his banana friend says). Gods have "powers" that we as humans wish we had...inordinate compassion, ability to cure illness, rich, purity, ability to forgive sins, superiority, vengence, etc. All of these qualities are those that we want/lack/need, but do not have...so we have made up something that possesses them so that we do not feel inadequate and hopeless.
As much as I would like to have the separation of church & state...it will never happen...they are one and the same on a very basic level. This country was founded on the NEED for their to be separation, but it never happened. Well, it was their very briefly...when the colonists first sailed to this country. After civilization flourished...churches sprang up...the catholic church regained its hold...and here we are...basically living in a theocracy again. The very thing we fled from when leaving Great Britain. Because you can't get away from it...because it's a flaw in human nature...not a singular person...or a single religion. As wonderful as it would be for me to point my finger at fundies and say that it is THERE fault...it is not. They are a result (the extreme end) of our fallacies.
And as much as I would love for religion to just GO AWAY, it will not. As long as their are humans who feel inadequate and have a need to fill those needs with "magical solutions" (mainly out of laziness)...their will be bibles, korans, torahs....religions. It is the sad truth.
So, back to the original thought...
Religion & politics (government) will never be seperate because they are essentially the same thing when you get to the root of it. We look to leaders to "save us"...from taxes, famine, war, etc etc etc. We base the worth of a "good" president on his/her ability to keep up from economic recession, famine, war, etc etc. It's the same thing really...
Why do you think elections like the presidential one gets so heated and nasty? We are talking about electing the "god" of the United States...and the U.S. is the leader of the world in many things...so we are in effect talking about electing the "leader/god" of the world. Of COURSE, it is going to get nasty and people are going to get emotional and illogical, etc.
I do not mean for this entry to be negative. I'm usually very positive (except when I'm ranting or venting)...lol.
I wish their was some way we could eliminate our need for religion and magical thinking...but unless the ignorant are eventually selected out (natural selection--survival of the fittest)...we will always battle this.
However, I do think that mass education of science will help. Maybe...just maybe we can get the percentage of religious people down..at very least. Back to the Darwinian selection...let's hope that happens.
Why do you think that for as long as their have been humans, their have been magical gods that have been written about? This directly correlates with the system of governments we elect. Every country has a person (singular) that they elect to rule over them (because they do not trust themselves enough to make the big decisions). We elect these "gods" and expect superhuman abilities from them (ex., world peace, elimination of poverty, wealth distribution, etc). For instance, Korea...it is demanded that they WORSHIP the leader and his son. Hello...what about this does not SCREAM religion???
Then, where those leaders are inadequate we look to invisible fairy tale creatures.
See, we have absolutely no proof of a higher power (with the exception of things in nature science can not YET explain--and absence of proof is not proof despite what Kirk Cameron and his banana friend says). Gods have "powers" that we as humans wish we had...inordinate compassion, ability to cure illness, rich, purity, ability to forgive sins, superiority, vengence, etc. All of these qualities are those that we want/lack/need, but do not have...so we have made up something that possesses them so that we do not feel inadequate and hopeless.
As much as I would like to have the separation of church & state...it will never happen...they are one and the same on a very basic level. This country was founded on the NEED for their to be separation, but it never happened. Well, it was their very briefly...when the colonists first sailed to this country. After civilization flourished...churches sprang up...the catholic church regained its hold...and here we are...basically living in a theocracy again. The very thing we fled from when leaving Great Britain. Because you can't get away from it...because it's a flaw in human nature...not a singular person...or a single religion. As wonderful as it would be for me to point my finger at fundies and say that it is THERE fault...it is not. They are a result (the extreme end) of our fallacies.
And as much as I would love for religion to just GO AWAY, it will not. As long as their are humans who feel inadequate and have a need to fill those needs with "magical solutions" (mainly out of laziness)...their will be bibles, korans, torahs....religions. It is the sad truth.
So, back to the original thought...
Religion & politics (government) will never be seperate because they are essentially the same thing when you get to the root of it. We look to leaders to "save us"...from taxes, famine, war, etc etc etc. We base the worth of a "good" president on his/her ability to keep up from economic recession, famine, war, etc etc. It's the same thing really...
Why do you think elections like the presidential one gets so heated and nasty? We are talking about electing the "god" of the United States...and the U.S. is the leader of the world in many things...so we are in effect talking about electing the "leader/god" of the world. Of COURSE, it is going to get nasty and people are going to get emotional and illogical, etc.
I do not mean for this entry to be negative. I'm usually very positive (except when I'm ranting or venting)...lol.
I wish their was some way we could eliminate our need for religion and magical thinking...but unless the ignorant are eventually selected out (natural selection--survival of the fittest)...we will always battle this.
However, I do think that mass education of science will help. Maybe...just maybe we can get the percentage of religious people down..at very least. Back to the Darwinian selection...let's hope that happens.
Mood:
contemplative
contemplative
Stumble It!
Day & Nite by Day & Nite is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.
Based on a work at dayandnite.livejournal.com.
I remember always feeling very uncomfortable and awkward worshiping in church. For as long as I can remember I always felt stupid lifting my hands, closing my eyes and talking to the ceiling. Oh, I did it many times...I would ignore my feelings and tell myself that what I felt was "pride" and I needed to get over myself. As I got older I wasn't quite as able to ignore the "this is stupid" feeling during church services. I eventually got to where I would simply sit back and watch everyone else make an idiot out of themselves.
I went to pentecostal and apostolic churches, so yeah...everything you heard about them is true. They jump pews, scream, cry, dance, twitch...you name it...they do it. I've seen it all! I would sit back and wonder why some all powerful diety needed his lowly creations to act like goons in order to prove our allegiance to it.
Women would leave with their hair a mess...men with their shirts untucked and ties loosened...children in comas walking out the church at very late hours when they had school the next morning. But, if you were in the "in crowd" the night was still not over! You were then expected to go to the nearest restaurant just minutes before they close and demand a table for fifteen or twenty and everyone order full meals with appetizers. Oh, and the best part...do all of that and leave a buck for the entire table as a tip...and a church business card or tract.
Oh, and then there was youth camps in June. I did enjoy going to those because it got me away from my family for a week! Those camps were crazy though. Church from 9am to midnight every day. We would have a morning service promptly after breakfast and then we went immediately into classes for the next two hours or so. Then, we would break for lunch and if you were not in choir you were free to play sports (but they made you feel very guilty if you were not in choir). Then, around 4pm you had to go begin to get ready for the night service...this was an ORDEAL because of the shared showers and toilets. Then, the night service was loud, obnoxious, and would not end until the person(s) in charge felt that we had a "good" service (this meant lots of screaming, running, dancing, crying, etc). Afterwards, a short break to get a bite and off to bed we went...supposedly.
The best part of those camps was...AFTER service...somewhere around one or two A.M. We would sneak out of our dorms with shaving cream, toilet paper, and anything else gross we could get our hands on and vandalize someone else's' dorm. Well, one particular night...our arch enemy next door decided to repay us for our decorating talents from the night before. Well, we chase them outside when they toss BLEACH onto our faces and into our EYES! Yes, Clorox bleach! I was one of the unfortunate ones to get it in my eyes. The night ended abruptly as we ran to the showers to rinse our eyes...the nurses were called out (at around 3am) to our dorm to check on us. The worst part? Well, it was when we found out that the dorm mother KNEW what the girls were up to and did not care and when confronted...still did not care and insisted that we deserved it. We DESERVED CLOROX THROWN INTO OUR EYES! We were all around 13 or 14 years old.
Christians...reeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaalllllll llll nice people they are...sigh.
I went to pentecostal and apostolic churches, so yeah...everything you heard about them is true. They jump pews, scream, cry, dance, twitch...you name it...they do it. I've seen it all! I would sit back and wonder why some all powerful diety needed his lowly creations to act like goons in order to prove our allegiance to it.
Women would leave with their hair a mess...men with their shirts untucked and ties loosened...children in comas walking out the church at very late hours when they had school the next morning. But, if you were in the "in crowd" the night was still not over! You were then expected to go to the nearest restaurant just minutes before they close and demand a table for fifteen or twenty and everyone order full meals with appetizers. Oh, and the best part...do all of that and leave a buck for the entire table as a tip...and a church business card or tract.
Oh, and then there was youth camps in June. I did enjoy going to those because it got me away from my family for a week! Those camps were crazy though. Church from 9am to midnight every day. We would have a morning service promptly after breakfast and then we went immediately into classes for the next two hours or so. Then, we would break for lunch and if you were not in choir you were free to play sports (but they made you feel very guilty if you were not in choir). Then, around 4pm you had to go begin to get ready for the night service...this was an ORDEAL because of the shared showers and toilets. Then, the night service was loud, obnoxious, and would not end until the person(s) in charge felt that we had a "good" service (this meant lots of screaming, running, dancing, crying, etc). Afterwards, a short break to get a bite and off to bed we went...supposedly.
The best part of those camps was...AFTER service...somewhere around one or two A.M. We would sneak out of our dorms with shaving cream, toilet paper, and anything else gross we could get our hands on and vandalize someone else's' dorm. Well, one particular night...our arch enemy next door decided to repay us for our decorating talents from the night before. Well, we chase them outside when they toss BLEACH onto our faces and into our EYES! Yes, Clorox bleach! I was one of the unfortunate ones to get it in my eyes. The night ended abruptly as we ran to the showers to rinse our eyes...the nurses were called out (at around 3am) to our dorm to check on us. The worst part? Well, it was when we found out that the dorm mother KNEW what the girls were up to and did not care and when confronted...still did not care and insisted that we deserved it. We DESERVED CLOROX THROWN INTO OUR EYES! We were all around 13 or 14 years old.
Christians...reeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaalllllll
Mood:
listless
listless
Stumble It!
Day & Nite by Day & Nite is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.
Based on a work at dayandnite.livejournal.com.
Mood:
worried
worried
Stumble It!
Day & Nite by Day & Nite is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.
Based on a work at dayandnite.livejournal.com.
I am becoming quite weary of fighting against the christians. I would like to simply coexist a long side them...they live their lives and I live mine. But, it is becoming increasingly hard to do such. From laws passing that allow teachers to "supplement" science education with religious nonsense...to my parents not respecting my right to raise my daughter differently in regards to religion. I can't even allow my daughter to spend the weekend with them without them forcing pentecostal philosophy down her throat. She comes home regurgitating that nonsense and I have to try and explain that that is her grandparents beliefs and not mine...and so, it does not have to be hers. They get onto her for wearing toenail polish...they tell her that "god" gave her her long hair so that she will not ask for it to be cut. They tell her pants are for boys and makeup is for whores.
I'm so very tired of it. I'm surrounded by fairy believing idiots that do not respect my boundaries. I could blow up...I could lose it. This is not who I am though, I am usually cool, calm & collective. I like to stay mellow. I'm normally very passive and hate drama. Is now the time to change? Or should I remain myself and try to peacefully work this out? Christians do not know peace...they hate it. They say they like it, but their actions scream otherwise. They love war...they look forward to some "end of time" event and they are excited about the thought of millions of people burning in hell. This is messed up! This is psychotic. I can't believe I was one of them...I'm so glad I am not any longer.
It's very hard to stand up to your family when you have been very passive all of your life. Whatever they said went and you rarely questioned, especially on the big questions. I find myself in opposition with them now...on those big questions. This is tough.
I'm so very tired of it. I'm surrounded by fairy believing idiots that do not respect my boundaries. I could blow up...I could lose it. This is not who I am though, I am usually cool, calm & collective. I like to stay mellow. I'm normally very passive and hate drama. Is now the time to change? Or should I remain myself and try to peacefully work this out? Christians do not know peace...they hate it. They say they like it, but their actions scream otherwise. They love war...they look forward to some "end of time" event and they are excited about the thought of millions of people burning in hell. This is messed up! This is psychotic. I can't believe I was one of them...I'm so glad I am not any longer.
It's very hard to stand up to your family when you have been very passive all of your life. Whatever they said went and you rarely questioned, especially on the big questions. I find myself in opposition with them now...on those big questions. This is tough.
Mood:
aggravated Music:Death Cab for Cutie
aggravated Music:Death Cab for Cutie
Stumble It!
Day & Nite by Day & Nite is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.
Based on a work at dayandnite.livejournal.com.
I was and still am (to a degree) a "rabid" atheist. I'm still an atheist, but not as rabid. Alot of the anger has subsided as time has passed and I've had those tail chasing arguments with believers. You get...no where with a dedicated believer. Like Carl Sagan said, "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe." You can't win someone over who has that mindset. I know because I was once...one of those. When you are in that state, you are certain of your certainty despite the lack of evidence thereof.
Now, don't misunderstand...in no way have I backed down in what I believer...or rather do not believe. I have simply realized that just as the rabid believers irritate the hell out of me and can not change my thinking no matter what they say. The only way I'd change my mind is if they showed me a verifiable miracle (happening before my eyes) that could not be explained with science. Point being...no one will change my mind. Likewise, an atheist is not going to change the mind of a dead-set believer because they are set on believing and you can't argue with someone who basis everything on invisible "faith". So, the best approach is to sit back and wait for an open-minded person who happens to be a believer to come along and that is the person that I can change.
No, there is no hidden agenda in wanting to deconvert someone. I do not want offerings or tithes from them, nor do I even want credit for the transformation into free thinking. My delite is in maybe....just maybe....helping someone see the wonder in simply living. To perhaps appreciate their fellow human being as a human being and not some supernatural ghost that will pay for their mistakes after death. I was a Christian for 28 years of my life (including childhood) and never once did I experience REAL happiness until I shed my superstitious beliefs of religion. I appreciate each and every day and realize the absolute, mind boggling genetic wonder that it is to even exist. No, evolution does not need some invisible being orchestrating it...it does just fine on its own. And when you view your existence as a complex product of evolution...it makes you damn proud to be here and that in itself is exciting! You do not need some false hope of an afterlife in order to find "meaning" in your life.
Christians, Muslims, Jews and many other religions believe our lives here on earth are but a mere waiting room...or purgatory if you will until the REAL life in heaven. I lived with that belief for a long time and it is miserable to always be waiting for something better. Life becomes a drudgery very quickly. But, enough of all of that...I got on a rant.
Now that I'm ready to talk about something else...I'm too tired of typing. LOL Maybe later.
Peace-
Day & Nite
Now, don't misunderstand...in no way have I backed down in what I believer...or rather do not believe. I have simply realized that just as the rabid believers irritate the hell out of me and can not change my thinking no matter what they say. The only way I'd change my mind is if they showed me a verifiable miracle (happening before my eyes) that could not be explained with science. Point being...no one will change my mind. Likewise, an atheist is not going to change the mind of a dead-set believer because they are set on believing and you can't argue with someone who basis everything on invisible "faith". So, the best approach is to sit back and wait for an open-minded person who happens to be a believer to come along and that is the person that I can change.
No, there is no hidden agenda in wanting to deconvert someone. I do not want offerings or tithes from them, nor do I even want credit for the transformation into free thinking. My delite is in maybe....just maybe....helping someone see the wonder in simply living. To perhaps appreciate their fellow human being as a human being and not some supernatural ghost that will pay for their mistakes after death. I was a Christian for 28 years of my life (including childhood) and never once did I experience REAL happiness until I shed my superstitious beliefs of religion. I appreciate each and every day and realize the absolute, mind boggling genetic wonder that it is to even exist. No, evolution does not need some invisible being orchestrating it...it does just fine on its own. And when you view your existence as a complex product of evolution...it makes you damn proud to be here and that in itself is exciting! You do not need some false hope of an afterlife in order to find "meaning" in your life.
Christians, Muslims, Jews and many other religions believe our lives here on earth are but a mere waiting room...or purgatory if you will until the REAL life in heaven. I lived with that belief for a long time and it is miserable to always be waiting for something better. Life becomes a drudgery very quickly. But, enough of all of that...I got on a rant.
Now that I'm ready to talk about something else...I'm too tired of typing. LOL Maybe later.
Peace-
Day & Nite
Location:purgatory Mood:
calm
calm
Stumble It!
Day & Nite by Day & Nite is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License.
Based on a work at dayandnite.livejournal.com.
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