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Author Topic: Alternate Industry Name  (Read 177 times)
Sage Enterprises [PC,O3]
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« on: July 20, 2008, 07:03:08 am »

I just came across this city name in a blogger profile:

's-Gravenhage

It's not in our Index, so I looked it up in wikipedia, and it turns out to be an official alternate for The Hague).

I voted for The Hague on the blog in question, but a moderator isn't going to recognize my vote as legit.

Since this is an official alternate name for The Hague, I'm thinking it should be added to the Index as an alternate also.

Thanks,

Sage
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2008, 07:51:34 am »

I just came across this city name in a blogger profile:

's-Gravenhage

It's not in our Index, so I looked it up in wikipedia, and it turns out to be an official alternate for The Hague).

I voted for The Hague on the blog in question, but a moderator isn't going to recognize my vote as legit.

Since this is an official alternate name for The Hague, I'm thinking it should be added to the Index as an alternate also.

Thanks,

Sage

I hope a moderator gets it since it's in the industry description:

"The Hague ('s-Gravenhage) is a city in the province of Zuid-Holland in the Netherlands (Holland)."
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beth
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2008, 08:02:12 am »

Secondary name for The Hague modified to add 's-Gravenhage.
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Beijós XXI SGP
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2008, 09:29:06 am »

IMO, the primary name in the Index should always be the English name and the local names (in some instances, there are more than one local name for the same city), should be secondary.

Then,
«The Hague ('s-Gravenhage) is a city in the province of Zuid-Holland in the Netherlands (Holland).» is a correct description
OTOH
«'s-Hertogenbosch is a city in the province of Noor-Brabant in the Netherlands (Holland).» is not, and should be replaced by
«The Bosh ('s-Hertogenbosch) is a city in the province of Noor-Brabant in the Netherlands (Holland).»

The same could be applied to several cities in Holland
«Dordrecht is a city in Zuid-Holland» should be replaced by «Dordt (Dordrecht) is a city in the province of Zuid-Holland in the Netherlands (Holland).»
... and so on.

But there are some errors in the structure of The Netherlands sub-industries. For instance, according to Wikipedia, Zaanstad is not a «a city in the province of Noord-Holland in the Netherlands (Holland).», it is a municipality, being Zaandam its main city.
The very same could be said about Haarlemmermeer, which is not «a city in the province of Noord-Holland in the Netherlands (Holland).», but, again, a municipality; its main city is Hoofddorp.

Regards,
B.
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Kat van Trollebol
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2008, 10:42:31 am »

I'm from the Netherlands; Zaanstad and Haarlemmermeer are real cities. (We call cities 'gemeenten')
The Bosch (we say: den Bosch) is an abbreviation of s'Hertogenbosch, just like the Hague (we say: 'den haag') is an abbreviation of s'Gravenhage.

In the Netherlands, a municipality (gemeente) is part of a province (provincie).

IMHO the structure of The Netherlands sub-industries is fine. All cities have local, dutch names.
The Hague is the only one in english
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Beijós XXI SGP
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2008, 11:28:01 am »

Yeah, I've seen that, according to this site, Zaanstad is a city. I wonder why it's not the case with Wikipedia  Huh
Also, we could have some help with these designations
Zaanstad is een gemeente...
Zaandam is een stad in de provincie Noord-Holland die in 1974 is opgegaan in de gemeente Zaanstad

The Bosch (we say: den Bosch) is an abbreviation of s'Hertogenbosch, just like the Hague (we say: 'den haag') is an abbreviation of s'Gravenhage.

So, do you agree there is a need to standardize, either to begin the cities' description with the English name (as The Hague), or the local (as s'Hertogenbosch)?

I'm from the Netherlands; Zaanstad and Haarlemmermeer are real cities. (We call cities 'gemeenten')
(...)
In the Netherlands, a municipality (gemeente) is part of a province (provincie).

I'm confused - didn't you use the same word for both city and municipality?
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2008, 11:51:17 am »

Yeah, I've seen that, according to this site, Zaanstad is a city. I wonder why it's not the case with Wikipedia  Huh
on my gosh the great and powerful wikipedia is wrong again...

I'm confused - didn't you use the same word for both city and municipality?
City and Municipality is more or less the same thing.

from http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=municipality
an urban district having corporate status and powers of self-government; people living in a town or city having local self-government
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2008, 12:25:43 pm »

Yeah, I've seen that, according to this site, Zaanstad is a city. I wonder why it's not the case with Wikipedia  Huh

This is what Wiki says about  municipality (in general) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality

Also, we could have some help with these designations
Zaanstad is een gemeente...
Zaandam is een stad in de provincie Noord-Holland die in 1974 is opgegaan in de gemeente Zaanstad

It says : Zaanstad is a town  (we have more words for city : 'stad', 'dorp', 'gemeente'and the most recent word is 'gebied' ) ('gemeente is a more formal word)
Zaandam is a town in the province Noord-Holland, the town merged with Zaanstad in 1974, but kept it's self-government (just like Krommenie, Wormerveer, Assendelft, Westzaan, Zaandijk and Koog aan de Zaan  )
Recent politics have led to a great number of mergers between smaller municipalities or with cities.

Among the municipalities we we have several "Flavors": those comprising one main city, town or village with the same name as the municipality, and possibly some additional villages.
Those comprising several villages, none with the name of the municipality. In that case the name of the municipality may not be as well-known outside it as the villages.
And those comprising a main town and additional villages, yet the municipality is not named after this town; for example: Haarlemmermeer with main town Hoofddorp. (there are many more examples)


So, do you agree there is a need to standardize, either to begin the cities' description with the English name (as The Hague), or the local (as s'Hertogenbosch)?

The Hague is the only english one in the Netherlands sub-industries , that's a bit funny, I agree.

I'm from the Netherlands; Zaanstad and Haarlemmermeer are real cities. (We call cities 'gemeenten')
(...)
In the Netherlands, a municipality (gemeente) is part of a province (provincie).

I'm confused - didn't you use the same word for both city and municipality?
Yes. That too  Grin

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Rene Franco
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2008, 12:26:17 pm »


City and Municipality is more or less the same thing.

from http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=municipality
an urban district having corporate status and powers of self-government; people living in a town or city having local self-government


I no agree with City and Municipality is more or less the same thing.

This is excelent concept of municipality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipality
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2008, 03:22:09 pm »

We have examples in the Index that are exceptions to city=municipality.  In the case of Paris, ON (the example that comes to mind--not quite what I'm looking for, but it's handy), the city was made part of the larger municipality when two tiers of government were replaced by one.  However, people still think of Paris, ON, as an entity unto itself, and it is the urban centre in an otherwise rural and semi-rural municipality, so we've included as if it still held city status.  This is consistent with the city not being the same as the municipality, as it was prior to the change.
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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2008, 08:24:46 am »

Jozi appears to be a familiar name for Johannesburg, South Africa. Here's an example:

http://www.travelblog.org/Africa/South-Africa/Gauteng/Johannesburg/blog-250559.html

It might be worth adding this as an alternate, or at least capturing it in the industry description.

Sage
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