California Supremes Overturn Gay-Marriage Ban
This just in: By a 4-3 vote, the California Supreme Court has overturned the voter-approved gay marriage ban. Here’s the opinion, authored by Chief Justice Ron George and signed by Justices Joyce Kennard, Kathryn Werdegar and Carlos Moreno. Justice Marvin Baxter authored a separate ruling, concurring in part and dissenting in part (Justice Ming Chin joined Justice Baxter’s ruling). Justice Carol Corrigan also concurred in part and dissented in part. Click here for an early AP report, here for a story from the SF Chronicle and here for an earlier LB post on the case.
The Court has ruled that the state of California’s interest in upholding the ban — that is, as the court explains, “the interest in retaining the traditional and well-established definition of marriage” — does not meet constitutional muster. It “cannot properly be viewed as a compelling state interest for purposes of the equal protection clause, or as necessary to serve such an interest.”
From the majority opinion:
From the dissents:
Good news
Link to opinion and key excerpt:
http://abovethelaw.com/2008/05/breaking_california_supreme_co.php
Fantastic!
we (CA Supreme Court) determine that the
language of section 300 limiting the designation of marriage to a union “between a
man and a woman” is unconstitutional and must be stricken from the statute, and
that the remaining statutory language must be understood as making the
designation of marriage available both to opposite-sex and same-sex couples.
Good to hear. Hopefully this is one step in the proper direction of granting equal rights to everybody.
so homosexuality is a suspect class in CA now?
Link please.
It matters not. The upcoming Constitutional amendment prohibiting same-sex marriages has overwhelming support of the electorate.
I apologize for not having the bigoted viewpoint pushed by many regarding marriage, but why should same sex marriage be banned? You may include Plessy v. Ferguson in your response.
Plessy v. Ferguson, Loving v. VA, etc. have as much to do with issue as the polar bears do with “global warming.” The California Supreme Court just handed the election to the Republicans. Gracias.
I echo the thoughts of Anonymous. Note the slip opinion at p. 10:
“the statutes in question
properly must be understood as classifying or discriminating on the basis of sexual
orientation, a characteristic that we conclude represents — like gender, race, and
religion —a constitutionally suspect basis upon which to impose differential
treatment.”
Have any other state courts declared homosexuality a suspect classification? (SCOTUS has not.)
And are same-sex couples in CA able to begin marrying today?
4 blind mice.
It is a VERY GOOD DAY!
worst. day. ever! we’re officially headed to hell as a country. time for a constitutional amendment…
Dear Wedge Issue 1:57 EDT: The People of the Golden State will not vote in November to amend their Constitution to exclude a certain type of person from full enjoyment of rights in our state. They may have voted for the statute many years ago, but a lot has changed in that time, and, many openminded voters will be a the polls to emphasize my point.
Its a great day in the world. It is about time people open their eyes regarding marriage. Marrying the person you love is what marriage is about.
There are two ways to get to heightened review - suspect class OR fundamental right. The court found both. 1: discrimination based on sexual orientation is suspect (like discrimination based upon gender, race or religion) and 2: same-sex couples have a fundamental right to have their family relationship accorded with the same respect and dignity as a hetero-sexual couple’s family relationship. Page 10 of the opinion at http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/documents/S147999.PDF.
The will of the people be damned.
Show me in the law where love is mentioned never mind defined.
Time to start impeaching judges.
Once again liberal judges have to show they know better than those grubby masses who pay their salaries. The Republican party thanks you for handing the election over again. Liberals say cultural issues aren’t important, becasue they get to define them.
I think those who don’t want to be famous or fabulous will come to rue this course of action. Go the aggreived and vocal minority route - 40 year after Watts we’re still doubting the innate qualifications of a black candiate for president. Thirty years from now, same-sex couples could have been living peacefully next to opposite-sex couples, complaining over the hedge about the same mortgages, taxes, schools, weather, etc., and it wouldn’t have mattered a whit what name to call the relationship. Instead, they tried to sweep back the sea and instised on semantics when the subsance was already sorted out. In the process, they left a 99.9% win on the table.
They can call all the citrus fruits in the groves altertnately-colored “pineapples” if they want, it doesn’t change the reality. You can’t legislate the language.
It is amazing to think that allowing two people to share a life full of love and happiness is still such an issue. We all need nothing but support at this time in the world today. The more we ban together, the stronger we all become. If by allowing two people of the same sex to unite means going to hell, I guess we will see all of the people who judge them there as well.
For thousands of years marriage by definition means the union of one man and one woman. It does not mean the unions of two men, two women, three men and one woman, four women, etc. Under this “new” definition there is nothing to prevent 3, 4 or 5 people marrying because it is their “right” according to this ruling. California reminds us once again how incompetent the judiciary is.
Show me one other suspect class where the members of the class are entirely self-identifying and that identification defies any objective verification.
I’ve never understood why the opponents of homosexuality aren’t thrilled as punch with rulings like this…
Shouldn’t gays be subjected to the same misery that us straights have imposed on ourselves for millennia? Just imagine if you were a straight male and could say, “Gee, I’d love to marry you, honey, but, you know, the state forbids it. Sorry babe!”
In short: the homophobes are short sighted.
Horrible opinion, the dissent explains the issues better. What is next? People will try to marry their pets, mark my words.
The gay mafia cant get their views supported by the polls so they turn to the courts, unbeliveable.
Who cares what your religion thinks about this issue? It doesn’t force your temple or church to have gay marriage ceremonies.
If the best reason you can come up with for denying gay marriage is 1) tradition, 2) my religion says it’s wrong..then you do not have much of an argument.
Notice that most of these judges were appointed by Republicans.
to “Comment by It’s about language… - May 15, 2008 at 2:24 pm ” How do you equate race with sexual orientation?
I find myself surprised by the rancor in some of these posts. Marriage began as a contract, a financial arrangement transferring property between a man and a woman’s father. She had no say. Legally, it still represents a contract between two people recognized by the government. Spiritually, whatever your religion says marriage is, it is. This spiritual definition should not come in to play when determining the legal definition of the word in our society. In fact, in most larger cities in the US today, gay couples can find spiritual recognition of their commitment to one another. All they want is the contractual recognition that brings with it the same financial and social rights and obligations that heterosexual couples already possess.
Okay, I think the court is wrong - but this forum has degenerated to a level that is making discussion useless. Let’s leave the hate out of this.
Okay, I think the court is wrong - but this forum has degenerated to a level that is making discussion useless. Let’s leave the hate out of this.
A man is a man, a woman is a woman, and only they together can create children. This is not anyone’s prejudice, and it is the foundation of marriage.
Female divorce court judges will be annoyed that will not be able to be biased in favor of a woman over a man in gay child custody and money issues.
I’m a man, my wife is a woman. We can’t have kids. So we can’t be married?
Ed, who said that tradition or religion are the best two arguments?
What about the text of the Constitution?
What about the will of the people?
What about the state interest in families?
The CA Court finds a fundamental “right” to marry. So if you get turned down when proposing to Cameron Diaz, do you now have a civil rights claim?
Idiots!
To Comment by Bill — that’s a ridiculous statement. You’re treating people like there a separate species. I think the court is overstepping their bounds but your comment is so hateful you could put any group you don’t like in the place of homosexuals.
“W]e should hesitate to use our authority to take one side in an ongoing political debate. The accommodation of disparate views is democracy’s essential challenge. Democracy is never more tested than when its citizens honestly disagree, based on deeply held beliefs. In such circumstances, the legislative process should be given leeway to work out the differences. It is inappropriate for the judiciary to interrupt that process and impose the views of its individual members, while the opinions of the people are still evolving.”
If we used the dissent’s logic many states would still have separate lunch counters and water fountains for blacks.
A quick check show no mention in RI law about “love”. Does California law talk about “love”. If not, on what basis was this ruling?
This is a good decision, as it let’s Californians know exactly what they need to do (re: Constitutional amendment) to allow the ban on same-sex marriages.
Speaking as a straight married person, I would like to say that any straight married people who say that gay couples are a threat to the institution of marriage are idiots.
The state of marriage is pathetic because of what straight people have done with it by abusing this right. I am looking at you, Elizabeth Taylor, Britney Spears and Eliot Spitzer. Oh, and let us not forget that FLDS polygamists are all straight, too. Just because a marriage is between a man and a woman does not guarantee that it is sacred, or even a good thing.
As far as I am concerned, gay people being allowed to marry can only improve matters, because they had to fight so long to get this right that it actually means something to them.
Noise, that is all this issue is. Just part of the bread and circus that the mob that runs this state likes.
Sad how the Gays think this is about Rights (wrong) and the Straights think its about Marriage/Family (wrong too). Just noise and diversion.
The tragedy is demise of the separation of powers between the branches of the state. The legislature is inept, the Judical is legislating and the Executive has abandoned his post.
Now that the philosopher kings have spoken, overturning the right of the people to consent to a society of their design, I think that I’ll become a polygamist or maybe even marry my sister. Hey, all you in favor of gay marriage — by what basis do you object? Better yet, if you don’t object, does anything have definitional meaning anymore or are we now just a bunch of nihlists? The conservative point is simply this — if you want to change the definition of marriage, rally your fellow citizens, enact legislation and go for it. Of course, when 95% of the people disagree with you, there’s always the Men in Black. And you wonder why people hate you.
Whether you can or cannot (or choose not) to have children doesn’t matter. It is the still an essential element of marriage and is why society places such a high value on it.
Bryan:
The will of the people cannot deny people equal protection of the laws;
as to the family, California, has laws or regulations which specifically permit homosexual adoption.
Jeff? this is the same as race? are you serious? maybe next we should give obese people the status of suspect class too
Alright everyone, its time for a gay parade. Get your aids tests ready and begin pouring the cocktails. This ones going to last forever.
Ed, read the opinion both the majority and the disent agree gays already have the same rights under unions, so how is it equal protection?
Well I don’t really believe that any marriage should be sanctioned by the State, in the first place. So, hey, as long as it is… I’m all for equal justice under the law (wait, doesn’t that sound familiar? I’ve heard that somewhere before, right?).
.
And, I’m curious… will full faith and credit apply to estate matters, etc. in other jurisdictions?
Heterosexuals have done more damage to the instituion of marriage than allowing gays to marry cold ever do. Let’s get real here.
The idea that marriage is “sacred” has not quite worked out in practice.
As Massachusetts has learned well, the sky did not fall when a similar ruling took place. In fact, the good citizens of Massachusetts have come around to understand that there is nothing threatening or harmful with gay marriage. Popular support for gay marriage has risen significantly in Massachusetts. You have nothing to fear but fear itself.
LIVE AND LET LIVE.
P-town,
I equate them because as a student of history I recognize that the gay rights activists are following the civil rights playbook step by step, to their long term detrement. Lose at the ballot box (the racial civil rights movement actualy won at the ballot box - 1866 Civil rights act?); lose with public opinion; seek recourse in the judiciary (only have to convine 4 people there, not millions — those 4 people have no consequence in the outcome), and thereby poison the well of public opinion for decades.
Marriage among gay people? Haven’t they suffered enough already?
Well, if anyone thinks this decision and overide of the voters will not be challenged, enjoy your few celebration moments. The courts are out of control and these 4 judges that voted to overturn are activists. They don’t belong on the bench. They should seek work with Pink or a similar organization. Anyway, it’s amazing that our courts have time to spend on nonsense.
Bryan I thik this explains it,
“retaining the traditional definition of marriage and affording same-sex couples only a separate and differently named family relationship will, as a realistic matter, impose appreciable harm on same-sex couples and their children . . . . Third, because of the widespread disparagement that gay individuals historically have faced, it is all the more probable that excluding same-sex couples from the legal institution of marriage is likely to be viewed as reflecting an official view that their committed relationships are of lesser stature than the comparable relationships of opposite-sex couples.”
To make an analogy. If blacks and whites went to separate schools that were equally good, would you think it is permissible to exclude blacks from white schools as their standard of education is the same? It is the stigma that is attached by the exclusion that is important.
As a male who is (1) straight and (2) borderline-allergic to marriage, this opinion has little direct effect on me.
And yet I can’t even begin to say how happy it makes me! Maybe there is some sense left in the world after all.
As a straight male I wish I could say to women who push for marriage after 6 months dating, “sorry honey, it’s illegal!”
So does polygamy qualify now too? Why limit the number of partners in a marriage?
How does regulation of marraige even get before the court? The court has taken some pretty wild liberty to find marraige a right in the CA constitution. What next… individuals demand to be married? How is that to be fulfilled, a State provided spouse?
The voice of the people has been usurped once again by a one vote minority of Left Lawyers. Isn’t it interesting how little the left trusts the people and empower perverts and narcisstic degenerates?
Just because a majority of people voted to discriminate against those of a different sexual orientation doesn’t mean the court is out of line in striking the statute down. Whoever suggested that this decision is faulty because the court overruled a democratically enacted law is severely missing the point.
The purpose of checks and balances in our government - the purpose of the courts - is to determine the constitutionality of laws enacted by the votes of the people. The California Supreme Court found Prop 22 was unconstitutional. It did its job and protected the minority from from the will of the majority.
Courts never settle law. (see Roe v Wade) They only open new chapters in the culture war. This might catalyze evangelicals to come out and vote against Obama.
This is great, now my kids are going to have a whole new class of kids to beat up. Those with 2 fathers.
Marriage is the only legal contract between parties that I am aware of where two people are forbidden to enter into it because of their sex.
From the state’s perspective, marriage is a legal contract between two people that spells out certain legal and financial rights and obligations. How the state should have any interest in the sex of the people involved in that contract is beyond me.
I think you’ll be surprised to find that the majority of people in the US are over the gay marriage panic and have moved on. The bible thumpers will continue to thump and the rest of us will either applaud or yawn. Get over it.
“Forgive them, Father. They know not what they do.” Oh, and I’m speaking to the idiots who misconstrue this as a religious issue instead of a civil law issue.
p.s. What your church allows for their marriage ritual is between you and your god.
The only other legislative restrictions on marriage in California are that both parties must show valid ID and be 18. An 88-year old from out of state can be wheeled up to a California County Clerk’s office, buy a marriage license, and have a Captain of the Salvation Army marry him to his 18-year old cousin. How is that more “legal” or “sacred” than Ted marrying Fred?
P.S. If we are going to vote on an amendment, let’s vote to protect the sanctity of the American flag.
Notice how confused this blog is. There is no standard to determine what is right or wrong by most commenting here. As Camus once said, a point on the surface of a paper without a vertical and horizonal scale (the standard)is absurd. Many on this blog make up their moral standards as they go. Complete moral confusion. This Country is another Roman Empire. It is heading for the sewer.
3:08, where are you getting the discrimination from? The people of California voted to reaffirm the centuries old tradition of honoring a marriage between a man and a woman. That’s discriminatory?
Haaaaaaaaaaay.
We should just open it up for people to ‘marry’ anything and anybody they want. How about fathers marrying daughters, or mothers sons? Brothers Sisters? Pets? Inanimate objects? After all it is all about feeling good, isn’t it? Just good old moral relativism, nothing wrong with that, is there?
The mission of the courts is to protect individual rights. By extending the legal definition of marriage to include homosexuals, the court is recognizing the Constitutional and moral rights of all adult individuals to enter into a marriage contract with the consenting partner of their choice. The court system is the crucial branch in that it provides constant vigilance over the constitutionality of legislation, striking down those laws that abrogate rights. While the legislature has the legal authority to pass any “democratic” law, no matter how many rights it violates, the courts are designed to preserve the republican ideal of protecting the individual from both the tyrant and the mob. While the masses may not support individual rights, it is encouraging to see that some judges still do. Hopefully, the Court will continue to protect rights from the advocates of socialized medicine, environmentalism, and mulitculturalism–those who truly seek to destroy society. Protecting the right to marry for all its citizens is a good first step, but socialist California has a long way to go in protecting all rights.
Now tell me why prostitution isn’t legal? It is just a contract for love after all.
The problem is the court is overreaching. Marriage is a legal contract, and the legislature has the authority to regulate those contracts. That is the extent to which the court should view the issue. Instead they are deciding they want to write the regulations. Their opinion does not indicate how the legislature has overstepped its authority to regulate. It just blathers on about political diatribe and what they “feel”.
It’s clear that the court overstepped its bounds here but I am (somehow) shocked to read what some of you people are saying. How many people do you know of who are lobbying to be able to marry their sister or their daughter? It just doesn’t happen, and even if it did happen there are genetic and physiological reasons why those people should not be allowed to have have sex. How many people are lobbying to marry their pet dog? You could count them on one hand.
To 2:57 — if gays are “failed genetic mutants” then should retarded people be banned from marrying? Should people born without a limb be banned? Those things actually are genetic problems whereas homosexuality is probably not.
The term “gay marriage” is inaccurate and misleading. Most advocates seek the extension of currently existing benefits and responsibilities to include same-sex couples. We want to be able to file taxes jointly, have rights to child support and custody, joint property ownership, inheritance and hospital visitation rights and access to divorce court. More appropriate terminology in discussing such legislation would be “same-sex marriage rights.” “Same-sex” is a more accurate and inclusive adjective than “gay.” I’m surprised at the knee-jerk reacting going on here. Simmer down, folks. It’s all good.
Can I infer from this decision that when I dress as a woman I can use the women’s bathroom?
Wow, your name is Alix. Never would have guessed your queer.
To Unknown ideal — I guess they skipped the part about protect the rights of a fetus from the tyrant and the mob?
Anonymous, at least Alix is proud of who he is and not afraid to state his name. Whats yours? Not man enough to put it out there?
Why would I call being gay a failed genetic mutation? Because I believe that being gay is genetic and it is obviouly a failed mutation because it has made mammal fail at his essential natural purpose: procreation to keep the species alive.
I always love these issues that don’t effect anybody else. How does gay marriage affect anybody but the parties involved. We have two wars going on, huge suffering in China, food and gas prices skyrocketing and a general decline in the economy and jobs and housing going the wrong way. But this is even an issue? How is this “the worst day ever” as some have put it. It isn’t going to change your life one bit. Grow up and worry about real things that actually efect your life.
I think all the bigots in middle America with 10 kids they cant feed are procreating enough to keep the species alive. We gay couples can be there to adopt and take care of the ones you people cant/wont.
Ben, first off, why would you assume I am a man. Second, how does not putting a name to my post make me any less of a man? Isn’t that the whole stereotype that you fags rail against, or do you only rail against your partners rears?
.
But, if you are so manly, why don’t you put your full name, address, email address, and telephone number on here. I’ll give you a call and we discuss this like men.
I think the old saying, “be careful what you wish for” applies here!
Unknown Ideal…So marriage is an individual right?
Marraige is already recongnized, that’s why you need a license, pay a tax, and file status regularly, and everyone already enjoys the same recongnition (even before the concept of unions).
The Court is no more crucial than any other branch..it is not the overseer of the other two (you are confused). Courts don’t negotiate contracts, they only get involved when parties are unable to agree to what was agreed to, And even then courts don’t negotiate (read regulate).
Again, you are really defining marriage as an individual right? HOW?
How is a person born with the unalienable right of marriage?
Well, thank you Marshall. I assumed you were a man because most women arent hatemongers like you. I should have known you were from Michigan, makes sense. You’re last statement makes absoulutely no sense at all.
There is a terrific new book out called “Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness,” by Richard H. Thaler and Cass R. Sunstein (he of the U of C Law School, soon Harvard Law) [Yale University Press 2008]. For purposes of this discussion, see the thought-provoking Chapter 15, “Privatizing Marriage.”
“I’ll give you a call and we discuss this like men.”
Okay, so I left out the ‘can’ before discuss. Otherwise, how does that sentence make no sense. Are you too slow to interpolate a missing word, or just too busy pumping sunshine.
What I never see addressed in these decisions is how any gay person was discriminated against in marrying the opposite sex member who consented to doing it. That was the definition, all people were allowed to get married under it. If they don’t want to submit to its qualifications, fine. It’s Stevie Wonder’s right to take a driver’s test, but the state doesn’t have to be compelled to give him a license.
I sit here in utter amazement and try to understand how letter same sex couples marry has any effect on my life. This is not a christian country; it is a secular one. Argument about religious beliefs are irrelevant.
Oh, just for the record, early christian communities did allow, sanction, and rejoice in same sex marriable. Just look at the historical and archaeological record.
How does Alix’s name make him any less of a man? For me, being a man means being sure of yourself, standing up for whats RIGHT, and taking care of this world we live in.
Start learning to love those around you. Unless we as a human race can learn to put aside our differences and care for our brethren, all of them, we are doomed. Get over yourself, Marshall. You are a BUM. And hate to tell ya, but in CA today, the bums LOST. The bums will always lose, sir.
The only reason that people are against gay marriage is because they are bigots who cannot stand gay people, either for religious or personal reasons, such as they are deeply unhappy people, who hate themselves. It makes them feel better to beat up on people. You are of course free to be a bigot.
Thank you Des walker. You could not be more correct.
Obama must be happy, his work is done for him.
Unfortunately there will be a huge backlash. Hard working Americans (yeah, the majority that founded this country) are taking another beating at the hands of poorly reasoned, liberal judges by judial fiat. It wouldn’t matter so much if the people of California wanted it to be legalized, but it’s clearly against the will of the vast majority of people there and just another cracker republic kangaroo court decision.
The backlash will work against gay rights, as more people will feel like their country is being stolen from them by fringe groups like this. It’s just one more divisive train wreck that our country doesn’t need.
I hope the gay marriage proponents are happy now, they’re leading the charge to destroy our country.
Amazed some of you people read the WSJ to be honest. This seems like it is a Yahoo chatroom
The court was wrong. Society will will speak at the polls.
Sorry John, we’re a secular country founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs. Try Sharia law if you miss that one. And Des walker, please don’t project your ignorance. Isn’t it possible to take a principled stand agains moral relativism? Doesn’t society have a vested interest in promoting a nuclear family, as traditionally defined, as there is endless precedent across civilizations for doing so. Yup, there have been exceptions. But I don’t see the Aztecs around today, so sacrificing virgins was probably not a good thing. Again, what’s your objection to polygomy? Don’t the people in a society have a right to define boundaries without the Leftist philosopher kings imposing what they think is best? Isn’t marriage a contract, defined by the people through their legislature and ENFORCED as such by the courts. Scalia is once again proven right. He warned it would come to this when the court overturned the state sodomy laws.
The system we live under, 3 equal branches of government and the foundation of Rights of the Individual (from which authority is granted to those branches) is set up side down when one branch usurps authority granted another. It is a fundemental break in the system.
When people engage in activity that is regulated, whether it be fishing or marriage is irrelevent, then it is the domain of the legislature. The Judicial branch just can’t decide one day that fishing season is open year round because they think it should be, it is not their call to make.
Marriage (as traditionally defined) was legislatively provide this, that, and other thing..later legislatively unions were provided this, that, and the other thing. The courts may want the convenience of calling it all marraige, but convenience is not a Right, nor should a right be lost or found for the sake of convenience.
6 out of the 7 judges on the California Supreme Court were appointed by Republican governors. They were appointed as judicial conservatives. (3 out of 4 in the majority are Republican appointees.) These are not leftist judges or judicial activists.
They applied existing California precedents, including the first state supreme court ruling in the country to strike down laws against interracial marriage back in 1948, to find that the right to marry is a fundamental right of liberty and personal autonomy protected by the state constitution. The people of California amended their constitution to include a specific rights of privacy, which played a role in this decision.
The opinion was written by Chief Justice Ron George, a conservative who was appointed to the court by George Deukmejian. And I understand that Governor Schwarzenegger has announced that he supports the court’s opinion and will fight against the proposed constitutional initiative in the fall.
I couldn’t agree with you more, Where am I. I have been surprised to find the discussion here sinking to the levels I often see on the MSNBC comments pages.
24Then the LORD (A)rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven” . . . .
Gen 19:24
Dr. Phil - great response, totally agree.
Sorry Leonard, you may have points but you fail on one simple fact — this was never a discrimination issue. If I am gay and I find a woman who wants to marry me, say Jim McGreevy in NJ, there is nothing in the law to say we can’t. What you are doing is changing the definition to suite your relativist beliefs. The job of defining is up to the legislature. Examples of RINO governors are irrelevant.
California gave us the dot-com bubble too. Remember the “New Economy?” Never mind history, natural law, or other such trifles. Our imagination alone will induce the formation of a new reality.
It’s during moments like these I relish the fact I still live in the South, but specifically, the Bible Belt. This will never happen here. Homosexuality goes against evolution. Reproductive organs should be removed upon application of marriage license. Yes, I may be narrowminded, but seriously, an anus? Gross. What the heck is delightful about that? Pudendum is the way to go.
The comments in this thread are hideous. And people wonder why the rest of the world hate the US. If homosexuality is “unnatural” it wouldn’t occur in nature. I don’t think the two gay penguins are “deciding” to be gay. So why would two human males or females? Its so sad that people want to deny others of happiness because they are insecure in themselves.
“but it’s clearly against the will of the vast majority of people there and just another cracker republic kangaroo court decision.”
Racial integration was also against the will of the people. Courts are supposed to decide whether the will of the people is consitutional, not rubber stamp majority decisions.
Same-Sex marriage is not a threat to the institution of marriage. In the end, each marriage will stand or fall on its own. Same-sex marriage IS a threat to the English language. The majority of people do not want their mother tongue to be hijacked. Men marry women and vice-versa. Men do not marry other men. They bugger them.
alix: the court said that statutes have already provided all the ‘benefits’ of marriage except the name. this case was about the name and stigma creation or enforcement.
IMO the Court probably should have stuck with Loving and not created a new protected class. That opens up a serious can of worms.
Hallelujah, it’s about time. It is time to stand up and be recognized, today is a wonderful day in America. Two people that love each other can get married. and it’s even better because they are of the same sex. So those who want to hate, sit down and be happy. There are more important things in this world to worry about.
Dr. Phil 413pm
If the people of California were that interested in protecting the nuclear family, i.e. a family group that consists only of father, mother, and children, then why did they already allow for gay adoption and gay civil unions before today’s decision?
It seems to me that the California legislature, representing the people of California, has already spoken as to what it believes defines a family…..and it is not purely a “nuclear family” as you would like.
Republicans and their “Defense of marriage Act,” and everyone was asking, “which marriage are they protecting, their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd.”
You want to protect marriage as “sacred,” ban divorce.
116th
Nobody has been able to answer this question for me. What is different between gay marriage and sibling marriage? If we say 2 men have a fundamental right to be married, how can we say that a brother and sister do not have that same right.
Des Walker - You make this sooo easy…You cite a tangential example, yet overlook the fact that this was already voted on and expressed as the will of the people — THEY OVERTURNED THE VOTER APPROVED GAY MARRIAGE BAN(you knumbskull). Not even a nice try. Go back to Western Civ 101 and learn what is “moral relativism”. Hint: its akin to liberalism. You must have your degree from one of those state (government) schools.
Hey Renee, do you believe that any 2 people who love each other should be allowed to be married?
Let’s see, what else is natural - cocaine, AIDS, obesity, mental retardation, Bubonic Plague, [insert your own abomination]. So by the reasoning that everything that is natural is OK for society, the aforementioned items are also acceptable.
Let’s take love out of this stupid equation because it is setting us up for ridiculous ride down a long slippery slope.
4 justices foisting their definition of marriage on the rest of us. The “2 people that love each other” is a bogus argument. This is a behavior, not a minority class like blacks, hispanics, etc. I guess there’s no need for legislative process. Just let the “enlightened” ones dictate to the rest of us.
This has long been gone. Let’s not use this in any arguments either. Seriously, 1/2 marriages end in divorce, and this is before states began allowing same-sex marriages.
Does anyone know whether groups have been granted rights before? If groups have rights then there seems to be no reason why one couple should have any more rights than any other couple and ruling could be justified. But if rights are for individuals and not groups then it seems fine to grant any individual the right to marry someone of the opposite sex while prohibiting anyone from marrying someone of the same sex. Can someone with legal knowledge help me out here?
e.g. A man and his love for his sheep. A woman and her love for her dog. A brother and his love for his sister.
Even though they are legally joined in matrimony, alla California life style, the “spouse” will not be eligible for federal or state favorable tax status under his or her employer’s Cafeteria plan, nor will there be a state or federal tax exemption for employer contributions towards “spousal and spousal dependent children’s” group insurance health, dental, vision, etec., coverage, as the employee will still have to pay income taxes on all employer contributions. On the bright side, however, the couple won’t have to face the “marriage tax penalty” as they would only be eligible to file separate returns. Oh well: Such is life in Caulifornia.
I think if homosexuals want to form a legal arrangement, they should become what they actually call themselves in the relationship, a partner. So merge all your assets, liabilities and capital into a legal entity and operate therefrom. You’ll be seen as one in the eyes of law.
Hey now, hey now, lets leave the sheep out of this. Until we can scientifically determine if they are consenting, we shouldn’t let them be married, rights be damned.
That is the problem with convenience for the court. The court “found” a right in 1948 to reach some desired outcome, how convenient (great outcome, but wrong approach). It would have been better to find the legislature has no business in regulating marriage beyond a narrow scope of concern (race not being one them) in order null the racism in the law. Instead, the precent set is to “find-a-right” were ever we go. This is the same problem today, the court is finding it convenient to find-a-right, rather than curtailing the scope of the legislature.
What happens when the age regulations of marriage are challenged? The precedent now is that no regulation can be set by the legislature. So the court finds-a-right for pedifiles, or what happens if they don’t - do they then have new precedent to reverse previous find-a-rights.
The court is not doing anyone any favors by find-a-right rulings.
Here’s a problem…same-sex marriages are not the same when it comes to children. Why?, because heterosexaul marriages do not need to adopt children. So what now? Do we do away with the adoption processes (afterall, a right delayed is a right denied and this a serious constitutional issue). Or do we make heterosexual marriages apply for the license to have children? (you have no right to children except as the state dictates?) Do you see now that the marriages are different? They face their own challenges that are unique, we can’t lump them together. That is why the legislature was correct in providing unions - (marriages and unions are not equal but separate…they are unique and seperate).
Its all been very convenient, but hasn’t solved anything, only made more problems.
Okay, heterosexuals don’t want to marry, look at the demographic information, and homosexuals want to “get married”. The opinion, based upon emotion (liberal thinking to make things right), is bad law. Especially when the voters have taken this option away from the courts in California because of such nonsense. This will get reversed and the gays, once again, will have convinced non-gays that they are willing to subvert societal norms for their lifestyle. Equating this will black civil rights is abominable.
FIRST to say Des Walker’s logic is idiocy.
Des Walker is just happy about todays ruling because it is the next step in line for him to have a 3 party marriage with his mother and particularly hairy goat.
Dr. Phil.
You are an idiot. You stated “Doesn’t society have a vested interest in promoting a nuclear family, as traditionally defined, as there is endless precedent across civilizations for doing so.”
If you read the decision, which I doubt you have, you will see that it addresses one issue: “whether the state Constitution prohibits the state from establishing a statutory scheme in which both opposite sex and same sex couples are granted the right to enter into an officially recognized family relationship that affords all of the significant legal rights and obligations traditionally associated with the instituion of marriage, but under which the union is of an opposite sex couple is officialy designate a “marriage” whereas the unioon of a same sex couple is designated a “dmoestic partnership.” In other words, the are talking aboutthe name to be applied.
Domestic partnerships already existed as a legal institution separate from marriage at the time Prop 22 was enacted in 2000.
In other words, you blathering on about “protecting the nuclear family” is moot. California has already decided that gays have the same legal rights in a union that straights have in a marriage.
Prop 22 said, you can’t call it marriage…..and that’s it.
The ignorance on here is astounding. Gays in Cali already had the same substantive legal rights in a union as straights had in marriage. That has been the case since 1999. The case did not “extend” any substantive rights to gays that they didn’t have already. It was merely about the name to be applied. Basically, there is no compelling state interest in prventing them from calling it a marriage. That logically follows once you have given them all the legal rights years before.
You people are unbelievable - why would you want the state to be able to interfere in one’s life in this manner? Two non-related ADULTS should be allowed to marry without big brother’s involvement. What else would you advocate - state secret police enforcing religious law? (might well have popular support for that in some regions of this country)
Des buddy, give it up. You are an angry, bitter, gay man. Why, I don’t know, but I would venture to guess you are relegated to a colostomy bag after one of your previous ‘partners’ blew out your anus.
Unknown Ideal &ndash