Christian pub landlords John and Krista Fleming have been sacked after their attempts to ban swearing and gambling on horse races drove customers away in such large numbers that takings plummeted.
Regulars at the King’s Head in Islington, north London, complained that they were excessive in their Christian zeal. “They should have had pews in there, not chairs,” said one.
The Flemings however said all they were trying to do was to stop people swearing at the top of their voices at the bar and intimidating other customers. Arsenal supporters were among the main culprits apparently (!).
What do you think? Now that smoking is banned in pubs, was it a step too far to try and push the “F” word out of the door as well?
Or was this a brave — if hopeless — stand against the bellowing yobs who seem to be a permanent feature at the bar of so many of our pubs?
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Talk about not knowing your customer!!
They would never get away with that anywhere. I could understand if it was for say a week and everytime you swore you had to put money into a box and all the money at the end of the week was donated to a charity. But what they did was pretty much ask punters to drink elsewhere. A local landlord has banned most of his locals for no reason, so all the locals have gone elsewhere and the landlords windows are put through every night. The power of the punter!
- Posted by DaveThe fact that these circumstances happened at the Kings Head surprise me.
The pub houses a very well known London Theater and its regulars are well behaved locals with a literately inclination.
The issue is the binge drinking Upper Street wanderers and, on football match days, some rowdy supporters.
It is the very presence of these folks that keep many of us (locals) away from an otherwise very pleasant pub. So perhaps the pub landlords were doing the right thing in insisting on proper behavior?
It is unfortunate that short term necessities drive the demise of a National Legend towards a common pook palace.
Upper Street, once a very pleasant place to go out for a drink or a casual dinner at many excellent restaurants is no longer so. It has become an unsafe binge drinkers paradise. Most of the best restaurants have long gone.
- Posted by Alfred LocalIt’s a matter of trying to keep standards, if you don’t, it’s a matter of time before we have no values at all. Look what has happened since do gooders stopped children being disciplined by teachers & parents. no respect for society anymore.
fw
- Posted by f wrightHaving run pubs in the past I thorughly sympathise with the landlord. I have always felt that a quietly spoken person will shout when annoyed and swear loudly when pushed further - if someone is swearing at the top of their voice then their next step-up in anger is likely to be physical aggression. If such behaviour is the normal ‘ground state’ of a customer in the pub it would make me concerned that they were one step away from a fight.
- Posted by Simon Berryhaha i find it quite funny that someone would even try! i understand Alfreds point but i dont think trying to ban swearing would achieve greater standards. I’ve been in many a drinking establishment from the highest to the lowest and one thing that is a common occurance is that after several pints of beer swearing becomes far more prevalent. Perhaps they could ban certain items of clothing or other inappropriate behaviour such as consuming large amounts of shots etc… or refuse entry to already drunk people? i believe measures like that would have a better success rate. It is a shame that this discussion has even arisen though.
- Posted by Jonnowell done to them!
Christians are persecuted far too much, particularly by media organizations such as the ‘BBC’
david p
- Posted by david petersAny bar owner can refuse service to anyone and order them to leave. But they do not because they are short sighted and only think about plying few vulgar twits with beer that are in the pub at the moment. The reputation is toast and behaved patrons stay away.
Come watch Jim Bicknell owner of the Copper Bar in Marshall, Michigan, USA. He and the staff absolutely does not allow any vulgar language.
He uses his 6′ 3” 300 pound body to belly bump the offender out the door and may very well bar them for month or two.
- Posted by Charlie RoscoeI have to agree with an earlier post, locals are put off using the pub by outsiders who cannot seem to enjoy themselves without using the kind of language that is disgusting and indeed threatening to normal folk who don’t feel it is necessary to curse with every other sentence or phrase. I will make a note of the brewer and avoid other establishments of theirs. They should support their landlords!
- Posted by Ann-Marie BennettJust a quick note, there are two kings heads in Islington Upper Street and Essex road article does not stipulate which one. I believe the Kings Head Theatre is still good for a pint and a swear word
- Posted by IslingtonBravo for Jim Bricknell.
If he were here in Islington, Central London London, helping out our Christian Landlords I am sure that the business would pick up the lost customers very quickly and to the dismay of the large number of Estate Agents (Realtors) with spiffy premises on Upper Street, reduce the mass migration to adjacent and in every way superior De Beauvoir, where the pubs remain local but with great food and there is rarely a sighting of a binge drinker or Arsenal fan.
No more from Alfred Local since there is no wish to turn this SWEARING issue into a local issue.
God bless the current Landlords of the famous KIngs Head, may their superiors repent and see the long term wisdom of maintaining standards at this famous establishment!
- Posted by Alfred LocalWe ban swearing in pubs, and what’s next? Banning people with tattoos? Piercings? Banning people of different religions? Banning people the landlord just doesn’t like? Banning “bad” Christians? It all seems very subjective to me.
I don’t smoke and I don’t like breathing smoke, but I can’t totally support the now more or less total ban on smoking purely because I don’t like being told what to do and how to behave all the time.
As to the swearing ban…while I accept that if I don’t like the policy of a place, I can go elsewhere (for the moment!), I wonder where it will all end. This nanny state is driving me crazy. I wouldn’t even mind it so much if it stopped gangs of kids hanging around my neighbourhood, threatening old people and keying cars, but frankly, it doesn’t.
- Posted by Janine CarterTotally agree good on them.We need more people like the Flemings to make a stand for CIVILICE BEHAVIOR and for what is acceptable and what is not.BRAVO
- Posted by graceMany people now view and promote swearing as being “normal” and this is partly reasonable
- Posted by julianIt is the language of threatening behaviour, aggression, escalating to fighting; it is the language of being offensive, disrespectful and intimidation and it is very prevalent in prisons and the prime currency of communication in families that “break down”
Many in our society will equally argue that driving aggressively and speeding are also OK.. an aggressive society is a sick one.. well done to all who have courage to challenge the culture of intimidation
First smoking, now swearing. What next drinking? Let’s ban everything and just sit and do nothing at all. Pub’s are closing at an alarming rate already due to the smoking ban. I do not smoke but I have noticed that since the ban, pub’s smell of stale beer and body odour. The pub is a place to go and relax and to a degree let go from the stresses in life, if people do not like swearing then don’t go!
- Posted by mal reynoldsIs swearing quietly or even at a normal volume ok?
Alfred Local: Most people in De Beauvoir are Arsenal fans. You don’t have to wear the colours to be a Gooner. Get real mate!
- Posted by WilliamWhy not just ban drinking as well. Seems everything else is.
- Posted by MikeWhy not ban religion, it causes nothing but problems!
- Posted by Daveits all very well banning swearing but with family friendly pubs ect and kids in pubs there are very few bastions of spit and sawdust pubs to go to.you will and should not ever have a subservant passionless population.evolution would have stopped in the middle ages if todays control freaks had there way.
- Posted by chrisTo all of those who suggest a ban on swearing, tosh and balderdash you nincompoops.
How are the modern ’swear’ words any different from the old except for their references to sexual acts or parts?
It is the manner in which they are used that offends. The more often swear words are used the more diminished their power is. If I were to call you an idiot, it has far more of an impact. Try it. Use it instead of a swear word next time. Does this make the word obscene, of course not.
So enough of this discussion, you cannot just disallow people from using words and clearly their employer agreed.
What you should be moaning about is the phrase ‘The customer is always right’. This has led to the downfall of civilised society more so than the swear word. Yet you remain silent…
- Posted by James RyanIf a gay black ‘civil ceremony’ couple was running the place, they would still be there, the pub would still be open, and every simpering, self righteous liberal busy body would be rallying assistance from every corner of a sick & rotten society to get their own way - and they would get it!
- Posted by Steve P