Great post! Who knows what we would do? You have a great point!
Chantell

What a great opportunity to allow nonbelievers to witness our love for Christ and how He changes our lives, beliefs and actions in a very real and practical way; when we would walk along side them in joint efforts for a common cause, to form friendships with them and care for them. Sounds like something Jesus might do! As long as we don't lose our "saltiness", it could be a win-win situation!

i think it is wrong for a church to compromise its finances and look to the secular world to fund their needs. these secular people do not live for Jesus Christ and therefore should not be allowed to come into a church with their worldliness unless they are coming into a church to get saved. AMEN!!!!

How will secular people even know what it means to be saved if they aren't exposed or "allowed" to come into church to see how wonderful it is? If I felt I wasn't "allowed" into my church the first time I set foot in there, I would have never taken that first step to becoming a beliver. Aren't we as Christians supposed to show by example? Aren't we asked to reach people for Christ? I think this would be a great avenue to do so. What a way to show how we should love one another instead of thinking we are "better" than someone who is not YET a believer.

Holly, I agree with Sheila, what an opportunity to have non-believers share in an opportunity with Christ followers to share our wealth and Love with those who need it. Who knows maybe some who attend the Dance events might become interested in the church and in a relationship with Jesus Christ!!

here in canada, we have formed a Mental HeaLTH Commission of canada. Why? it has three goals, one of them is to conduct a ten year Anti-stigma campaign. I feel our Convention should come on board because the church can be a powerful influence to help these vulnerable people who suffer the stigma of mental illness as well as their symptoms too!

Um...not amen! To ask for help funding a special project like this is a little different than partnering up with a secular institution to fund the church itself. Tithing attenders should be able to sustain the church itself without secular assistance.
But many non-Christians have a desire to help those in need...part of that created-in-His-image-thing I think...and who are we to say, "Sorry, you aren't a Christian so we won't allow you to give to the needy."
This plan is a great way to show the world that Christians aren't stuck in their little box of a church and can interact with the world. Because if we can't interact with the world, NO ONE is going to come to any church to get saved. They'd have to reason to. We can't expect people to just come to us to be saved. We have to go out into the world and make disciples. I think this partnership is an awesome idea.

The question that comes to mind is "Can two walk together less they agree?" Is it that the secular group agrees with the Church or the other way around. A hypothetical question- What if the secular DJs wanted to use your church's influence for their benefit? Would the church agree? These are just questions on my mind. I think it is important for the Church to be relevant as long as in every manner, from every angle, God's say is in place and Scripture is not used conveniently. God bless your church's project in Sudan!

We have to remember God uses the secular world the same as He uses those who know and love him. And sometimes He even uses them to bring blessing, teaching and sometimes even correction to those who know Him. God isn't prejudice and he loves them the same as he loves me. Praise Him!!

wow, pamela, that is a scary way to approach evangalism. Non- believers should not be "allowed" into church unless they are going to be believers? Huh, how does that exactly work. Jesus, came so that all could be saved, and I believe that means non-believers are allowed into church.

I agree with Pamela. God has and always will, use His people to fund efforts that spread the gospel and help others. We need to remember...be not unequally yoked together with unbelievers...for what fellowship hath light with darkness?

I think it's a good idea so long as the secular organizatinon honors the church's values in the event in question, such as by finding alternatives for alcohol if the church stresses abstenance from all forms. With the negativity, stereotyping, and that sort of thing that the media, etc., seems to try to paint our faith with, every chance to step out and work with real people in the real community seems like time well spent. It's an opportunity for us to show how we live by example and show that we care about the community. If we care about our communities, maybe they'll care more about us churches.

I do not think that it is wise for churches to collaborate with certain secular programs no matter what the cause. Situations like this further grey the lines between the secular the world and the church. I believe it is essential that believers and non-believers alike understand that there is a standard the body of Christ must abide by that does not necessarily apply to the world. We as the body of Christ cannot even give the appearance of supporting something that is contrary to the word of God no matter how positive the cause may be. We are in a time when we cannot afford to have people confused as to what we stand for as Christians.

I think it's a great opportunity to invite non-Christians to gather together with us and then expose them to God's love. You can't win people over for Christ without getting to know them - and to do that you have to meet them.

I get very uncomfortable with this topic. As Christians we are crossing this line all too often. The push to accept Fox Faith movies (Hmm, what other trash do they produce?), books of faith published by publishing houses tied to multimedia empires with ties to pronography amongst other ungodly things.

We have got to stand strong in God's Word. As the whole body of Christ, we are diluting His Word to fit what we want or what's convenient for us today ~ we need to make our lives fit and reflect Christ.

This is a great article because it really challenges us to think about our place in the world, as Christians who must live on this earth but not be of the earth, if you know what I mean.

While it is too easy to dismiss such a proposal as controversial and too divisive, I think that we should not quickly hit the "No" button.

As Shelia above says, this could be a great opportunity to witness, whilst also raising funds.

This is a great PR story as well, in a unique way. To outright reject it would feed to the common perception among the secular world that Christians are holier than thou and that we are boring and who wants to be a Christian when anything fun is a sin.

I think this can be approached with extensive, careful planning and openness on both parties' side. And this should be done openly, with the media's partnership. I can imagine articles in the media where the Christian partner frankly discusses the misgivings Christians have, the fears and the misconceptions that we should dispel for both believers and non-believers. This will give a more balanced and deeper insight into Christian thinking, that we are willing to work with the secular world, although we also have our own values that we would like honoured, not sold out; that we believe in the value of good, clean fun and wish to emphasise all those participating that the event is Christian and to please be respectful of our values, even if they don't cherish them personally; that we Christians would be continually praying for the events' success not only in terms of the objective (fund-raising), but also that it be achieved in a way that doesn't dishonour our values (that it doesn't degenerate into some massive orgy of sex, drunkenness and violence).

If we went public with our continued prayer about it, even non-believers may also be supportive because, let's get real, the vast majority of people, whether believers or not, don't wish for a party to degenerate into a riot. And we would need to expect that some amount of unruliness may happen. But hey, if it succeeds, what a testament to our faith. And this could be a springboard for other organisations to explore futher such collaborations.

Don't forget the secular businesses, not just Disney, want a commercial success too, and that again doesn't usually involve calling in the police or a sea of post-party mess.

I love how this ministry thought through and question potential areas of conflict. I think that the partnership will be beneficial for the purpose it is being put together for: to raise money for the Sudanese infrastructure. In this case, the ophanage is being helped by people on the other side of the globe who could just as easily have said, It ain't my problem. If the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof, why can't secular and nonsecular resources be used to help God's creation?

Really feel a little one in the front of the giant , as regarding belief in Christ , sorry I have only been a listener and a simple follower , sometimes , be a lazy one, I seldom speak up or talk about much my comments about Godliness, I am afraid of offending God because I don’t know much. But , I only know The God is always right and be good for people in the world. Meanwhile it is said God has been working hardly in China, because she wants to reform a colony of sinners to fresh people as model examples in the world.
This is my first time to speak up about my comments as follows, because In China nowhere can speak up freely , and no body likes to listen to it .
1. be submission of God , it is a basal desire of be a Christian.
2. everything follows and be satisfied God’s wills, possess enough benefactions to spend for God in sincere .
3. follow the trial of Peter , know God’s temperaments very much , love God with a really and truly heart, touch of God’s intention . still have a real belief in any distressful situations. Here, it is said Paul isn’t applauded .
4. seek the truth utmost, recognize and know our sins by ourselves . reform to be a honest person, keeping faith God always, because God would like to help people to fulfill all wishes.

Wish all Christian in the world can be purified and perfected by God ‘words

Just a day ago a friend of mine placed an ad to sell a guitar case. The case belonged to a guitar which was stolen from church a couple of years back. Someone came into the church asking where the washroom was and made his way out the back door with the guitar, which was only a couple of weeks old. My friend never replaced the guitar and trusted that if the Lord wanted him to have it back He would give it to him. Just this weekend a man(who isn't saved) replied to the ad and came to buy the case. My friend spoke of the Lord and told him the story of how his guitar was stolen after worship and how he has been waiting on the Lord for a new one. The man bought the case and left. Only to return later with a guitar and case, saying that after he left and heard the story he just knew he was supposed to give his guitar away. My friend told him when he would be leading worship and invited him to church to hear him play this man's guitar. So God blessed my friend with a new guitar and planted a seed in this man. And God knows maybe he will come into our church and leave a saved man. Jesus payed too big of a price for us to pick and choose who can come. Amen!!

Great Post! But, let's not forget about "prayer" first. I would think if one of our churches is proposed with one of these secular base fund-raisers for a special project; praying about it should be
the first thing we should do until we receive an answer from the Holy Spirit. He may direct us to his "word" for the answer. Again, P U S H (pray until something happens)!

Great article! And so encouraging to hear of your pastor's insight and willingness to partner in an innovative way ... as well as challenge the status quo for believers. I coordinate local outreach in my church and have struggled with the same questions. You've offered me a new way to revisit the questions and opportunities.

i can't see partnering with secular organizations to support a common goal as a dilution of the church's strength or message. to paraphrase paul, it doesn't matter how Christ is preached as long as Christ is preached. to paraphrase buechner, the world speaks of holy things in the only language it knows, which is a worldly language. in this age of hollywood jumping on the cause celebre bandwagon like there's no tomorrow, partnerships like this are especially important for showing the world that the church cares about these matters too.

i know of no better way to foster a relationship - ie. between the church and secular organizations - then by finding common ground, in this case the darfur genocide. it seems very off-putting to me to declare to a non-believer that the sudanese don't need YOUR help, only ours.

as well, it's much easier to talk about differences after finding common ground. in my first year of college, their was a young man who liked to come into our christian fellowship room for the purpose of insulting our faith based on creation v. evolution, and to goad us into seeing how stupid creationism is. he was quite hostile, and needless to say, there wasn't much room for actual dialogue in this setting. a year later, he and i met again while working for several months on the same film production, and on sets you spend lots of time sitting around talking between takes. in that time, we discovered and discussed common interests in literature and politics, and - surprise! - grew a friendship that lasted until i moved away two years later and we drifted apart. the bottom line is, it was only after him and i discovered a common ground that he became more willing to discuss our differences (that being my faith and his atheism) in a reasonable manner.

the bottom line is, in our contemporary culture, positive impact starts based on similarities - differences come later.

In the news this morning is an article announcing the partnership between CNN founder Ted Turner, the United Methodist Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America and the Lutheran Church- Missori Synod (which I belong to) to fight malaria in Africa. The article noted Turner's past hostility toward Christianity and contrasts this with more recent favorable views. He said that as he grows older, his opinions have changed. He did not say that he'd become a Christian, but nevertheless was willing to team up with 3 large religious bodies to accomplish a common goal. Could this be the hand of God at work, moving a powerful man toward Christ or at least toward using his considerable resources to benefit others?
I have to wonder what would have been accomplished if those denominations had refused to work with Turner because of his past comments and because he has not yet embraced Christ? Sure, they could have patted themselves on the back for standing up for so-called principles and righteousness but at what cost?

Another thing that, as Christians, we need to take into consideration and SHOULD consider is background of the corporation/business/company that is offering to help our Christian endeavors with financial assistance. I believe we have a responsibility to humanity and a duty to our brothers and sisters not make sure that we are not pairing up with a company that support and also finances unethical and non-Christian-like practices such as sweat shops or advocating inhumane conditions. This may even go so far as to look at the type of entertainment they invest in (movies, music, etc.). We need to consider, as Christians, if we are aligning ourselves with secular entities that do not reflect Christian values. What kind of message to do we send, and what kind of message should we send when we agree to partner with others? Their values, even if they are secular, should be in agreement with ours. We cannot not accept their assistance for the sake of money. We need to act responsiblity and make responsible decisions.

Great article - really makes me think which is what I like to do.

I agree with Sandra (April 2, 08). On the one hand, I think that if God chooses to use a company to meet a need at a church, that's awesome. Praise God!

On the other hand, what if it wasn't from God and the company just wanted exposure with Christians for whatever reasons. Say that company were Playboy or Trojan (not sure if that's a company name who makes condoms), should the church partner with them? Especially if they say all they need is their name and logo on info sheets nothing more, nothing less? Hello?!

Here's something else, not quite along the same line but something for you to think about. Think about Starbucks. They majorly fund Planned Parenthood. Should Christians go to Starbucks? Should churches spend God's money and offer Starbucks in their cafe?

I'd love to read some of your comments about this.

I felt so sad and discouraged when I read Pamela's post (March 28)--that attitude of exclusion is exactly what gives so many people a negative view of Christianity. We are called to love all people, and that does not mean only those who know Christ--that means ALL people. Did Jesus ever exclude anyone? NO! Also--where in the Bible does it say to never drink alcohol? It doesn't--that is a "rule" for a limited number of denominations. I pray that Pamela softens her heart and opens herself to the beauty within people of all walks of life.

As a Christian, I don't feel that the "sinners" who might attend this type of event are a problem. Aren't they the ones Jesus asked us to reach out to? As many previous people have stated, they might end up wanting to know more about the church and how to become a Christian. That is a very good thing! My problem with the event is: why do they need to serve alcohol? If the church is in co-sponsorship, they ARE saying that you can't have fun without alcohol and they are PROMOTING comsumption of alcohol. (Because it is for a good cause, it's ok.)

If I follow the condoning attitude of most of the previous writers, I wonder why churches don't start offering alcohol at all church events, (including Sunday morning worship services) because the prevailing attitude here is, the bait of alcohol will bring in a TON of "sinners" and otherwise, we just aren't any fun, and who would want to join us? If we have to lure people with alcohol to help us out with our ministry, where do we stop? Should we hire some strippers?

Ephesians 5:15-20 says: Be very careful, then, how you live - not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. (NIV)

Remember that when the alcohol ran out at a party wherein Jesus was in attendance, he miraculously turned water into wine. One could conclude that he he perpetuated the idea that alcohol is necessary to have fun, or that he was an enabler for alcoholics and drunkenness, but these aren't typically the conclusions we draw from that story.

It's not about "luring", which would be using people to get their money. It's about being present in a place where people already are and presenting an opportunity they might not have encountered otherwise. And the places in which these events are being held have bars, which serve alcohol. It's not as if the church is providing the alcohol or promoting drunkenness.

Surely we must consider the implications of our actions and "endorsements". But you have to separate the ideas of "baiting sinners" and being a light in the darkness.

A Christian church should be teaming up with EVERYONE to witness and to encourage all who need love! Too long the Christians have grown cults and excluded others who will not speak or think the same- but what did Jesus say? 'if you love only them that love you what good does it do you?' In finding a way to love and serve all people together we can become the followers Jesus envisaged, bringing G_d and healing to all. 'By their deeds shall you know them'.

Have any of you heard of the ONE campaign? It was started by christian compassion groups such as World Concern/World Vision. They are fighting AIDS and world proverty. In there ads they have actors like George Clooney, Noah Whiley, Brad Pitt, Don Cheadle and Bono. This group is making a difference. Partnering with big name celebrities gives this cause world wide attention. Don't kick a gift horse in the mouth! God works in ways we don't understand. How are we to shine our light if we just hide in the church? Go out and SHINE!!!!!